Old but Still Gold

[Raymond]

He may have chucked in 99 or 98 like some pple here say, but he's been legitimate for ages

..really, (trust me I am not the one's who would say once a criminal)..but its cricket bowling for christ sake

Well, on the same note, it's like Shane Warne who mentioned "fingers quote" to some bookie about a certain "ya right ! vweather report" and got a slap on the wrist way back whereas these days he should have been behind bars (speaking figuratively)

 

[Matt79]

Although few of them did use foul lingo when they got sachin and sehwag out, surely coz of the agony they gave them

Interesting comment, and I suspect you'll say it was a joke, but tell me, at what point of somebody being too good to beat fairly, does it become acceptable to make offensive discriminatory remarks to them?

 

[Raymond]

Interesting comment, and I suspect you'll say it was a joke, but tell me, at what point of somebody being too good to beat fairly, does it become acceptable to make offensive discriminatory remarks to them?

..I am on your side, it doesn't make sense.

Pakistanis still do it, especially the talibanisque Afridi who can't make up his mind about his career (I am sure everyone wanted to hear this)

***comments***

 

[parttimer]

..really, (trust me I am not the one's who would say once a criminal)..but its cricket bowling for christ sake

Well, on the same note, it's like Shane Warne who mentioned "fingers quote" to some bookie about a certain "ya right ! vweather report" and got a slap on the wrist way back whereas these days he should have been behind bars (speaking figuratively)

If you're trying to say there isn't enough consistency from the ICC on chucking and other indiscretions..you're right. Afterall how could Kirtley and Botha be expelled soon after their debut, yet Harbhajan was allowed to continue his "bowling" despite having been called already. If you look at Harbhajan's action today, it bores little resemblance to that of a few years ago

 

[Raymond]

If you're trying to say there isn't enough consistency from the ICC on chucking and other indiscretions..you're right. Afterall how could Kirtley and Botha be expelled soon after their debut, yet Harbhajan was allowed to continue his "bowling" despite having been called already. If you look at Harbhajan's action today, it bores little resemblance to that of a few years ago

Sorry, I don't follow you ( American: Get You, Sub-Con Translation: What the HELL do you mean, Queens English: Pardon me )

Sure, a turban'ator takes a hat-trick v.s Aussies and he is in the LIST

LEE does it too, I am sure he has Health Insurance for a 'Chuck test" too

 

[parttimer]

Sorry, I don't follow you ( American: Get You, Sub-Con Translation: What the HELL do you mean, Queens English: Pardon me )

Sure, a turban'ator takes a hat-trick v.s Aussies and he is in the LIST

LEE does it too, I am sure he has Health Insurance for a 'Chuck test" too

I'm saying that Harbhajan hadn't rememdied his action after first being called in 98, until recently. Thats a good 6 or 7 years of throw-downs without being banned. How can anyone explain this save for it being a political decision

 

[Raymond]

I'm saying that Harbhajan hadn't rememdied his action after first being called in 98, until recently. Thats a good 6 or 7 years of throw-downs without being banned. How can anyone explain this save for it being a political decision

It's enough satisfaction for Aussies that he was called (two or 3 times)

But LEE is doing it right now, without ever being called, how 'dya explain that

P.S : Since we are on the honest 'trail, what does Gilchrsit have to say about his Cheating mate (who is a nobody btw in the sub-con) called Warne (u know Gilchrist walks and he potrays honesty so he must hate a mate talkin abt the pitch conditions (as we know)

 

[Matt79]

Okaaaaaaaaaay.

Much as I hesitate to try and continue this line of argument, I think the obvious issue with chucking these days is the doosra. Its basically an illegal delivery. Noone but Saqlain has been able to bowl it without being cited for an illegal action. Its a great delivery, but unfortunately its impossible for the vast majority of people to bowl without chucking. Given the greater number of spinners in the subcontinent, this issue causes more distress there.

 

[honestbharani]

Good way to ignore the Lee question though. Or is that kink in his elbow seen as pure?

VEnkatraghavan has been quoted as saying that he has complained about Lee's action a few times and was surprised that nothing had actually come out of it.

 

[Matt79]

The pitch conditions thing was a terrible mistake by Waugh and Warne, but its not equivalent of match fixing. Doubtless that's what the bookie in question was grooming them for, but it was stopped a long time before it got to that. If you really think Warne would be involved in match-fixing you just do not know what you're talking about. He may be a total screw-up off the field, but he is a committed cricketer who would be, in my view, pretty much incapable of not trying to win a match.

But I expect you to ignore this as it isn't derogatory of either Pakistan or Australia.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm saying that Harbhajan hadn't rememdied his action after first being called in 98, until recently. Thats a good 6 or 7 years of throw-downs without being banned. How can anyone explain this save for it being a political decision

Neither has Lee.

 

[Raymond]

Okaaaaaaaaaay.

Much as I hesitate to try and continue this line of argument, I think the obvious issue with chucking these days is the doosra. Its basically an illegal delivery. Noone but Saqlain has been able to bowl it without being cited for an illegal action. Its a great delivery, but unfortunately its impossible for the vast majority of people to bowl without chucking. Given the greater number of spinners in the subcontinent, this issue causes more distress there.

And how about Akhtar, Shabbir...AFAIK they aren't spinners and Hair (An Aussie again, woaah) was the first one

And Spinners have been operating since the invention of cricket, they all had their version of the "doosra", saqlain didn't invent it btw

So Harbhajan is OK otherwise but is Doosra his "wrong', hmm how abt Lee's bouncer and Mcgraths Yorker so and so forth

I can understand ur hesitation abt the other issue, its not Channel 69 worthy is it now

 

[Raymond]

VEnkatraghavan has been quoted as saying that he has complained about Lee's action a few times and was surprised that nothing had actually come out of it.

Nobody takes it seriosuly when an umpire has a long name like that..cmon mate (unless the "van" ended like Vaughvan"

 

[Dasa]

I'm saying that Harbhajan hadn't rememdied his action after first being called in 98, until recently. Thats a good 6 or 7 years of throw-downs without being banned. How can anyone explain this save for it being a political decision

Evidence?

 

[honestbharani]

Evidence?

you expect one from a guy who makes THAT statement?

 

[parttimer]

Evidence?

I don't have any videos, just memories of the 01 and 04 tours. Mumbai 04 sticks out, his action in that match could not be called anything other than shocking.

 

[Matt79]

And how about Akhtar, Shabbir...AFAIK they aren't spinners and Hair (An Aussie again, woaah) was the first one

And Spinners have been operating since the invention of cricket, they all had their version of the "doosra", saqlain didn't invent it btw

So Harbhajan is OK otherwise but is Doosra his "wrong', hmm how abt Lee's bouncer and Mcgraths Yorker so and so forth

I can understand ur hesitation abt the other issue, its not Channel 69 worthy is it now

Akhtar was cited, yes. So was Lee. So far as I know, neither have been suspended, they were both cleared. Yes, people raise questions about both their actions still, mainly when they're trying to play mind games or score points in BS arguments like this one.

I've never seen Shabbir bowl, so I can't comment on whether he's suspension was fair or not, but as far as I can tell, the ICC followed its normal procedures and found he needed to remedy his action. What's objectionable about this?

The doosra for a off-spinner involves a different biomechnical movement to a regular off-break. That's why its often a throw when the normal off-break isn't. A yorker or bouncer is the same biomechnical action, merely a different release point.

If your channel 69 reference is talking about the Warne pitch reports, your response is a cop out from debating the facts of the issue. I'm not defending what Warne did, but I'm saying I don't think it amounted to a criminal action or can be considered the equivalent of match-fixing.

 

[honestbharani]

Akhtar was cited, yes. So was Lee. So far as I know, neither have been suspended, they were both cleared. Yes, people raise questions about both their actions still, mainly when they're trying to play mind games or score points in BS arguments like this one.

I've never seen Shabbir bowl, so I can't comment on whether he's suspension was fair or not, but as far as I can tell, the ICC followed its normal procedures and found he needed to remedy his action. What's objectionable about this?

The doosra for a off-spinner involves a different biomechnical movement to a regular off-break. That's why its often a throw when the normal off-break isn't. A yorker or bouncer is the same biomechnical action, merely a different release point.

If your channel 69 reference is talking about the Warne pitch reports, your response is a cop out from debating the facts of the issue. I'm not defending what Warne did, but I'm saying I don't think it amounted to a criminal action or can be considered the equivalent of match-fixing.

The point is, Matt, that he had gotten into contact with a bookie. Who is to say that (if he hadn't been caught) he would have gone down the Malik, Azhar route? While the act of giving away pitch info in itself wasn't as bad as match fixing and the like, the fact that he had gotten into reasonably close contact with a bookie is, for me, THE MORE SERIOUS issue.

 

[Raymond]

The point is, Matt, that he had gotten into contact with a bookie. Who is to say that (if he hadn't been caught) he would have gone down the Malik, Azhar route? While the act of giving away pitch info in itself wasn't as bad as match fixing and the like, the fact that he had gotten into reasonably close contact with a bookie is, for me, THE MORE SERIOUS issue.

Thank you

________

Matt, nevermind about Lee Issue...it's a given he won't be reported "seriously"

P.S Too Tired to pump a shivering response for ya today..later

 

[luckyeddie]

If your channel 69 reference is talking about the Warne pitch reports, your response is a cop out from debating the facts of the issue. I'm not defending what Warne did, but I'm saying I don't think it amounted to a criminal action or can be considered the equivalent of match-fixing.

Oh boy.

One step at a time, one step at a time. How do you think Hansie started? A meal here, a leather jacket there.

I'm not saying that Warne would have tumbled, but that first step had been made along a very slippery slope indeed.