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Old but Still Gold

Matt79

Global Moderator
Its the Doctor of Gonzo journalism. Although Gonzo doesn't come close to describing the excrement posing as reporting regarding Broad. He clearly sees the referee's role as being an activist one, but the comparisons were dodgy, and it sounded like one of Goebbel's diatribes ('the dreaded Broad', 'Broad was defeated by legendary fast bowler'). I'm pretty sure that Ganguly's ban came after repeated instances of the same offence.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Ganguly has been a shocker with overrates and it used to annoy the hell out of me, but I distinctly remember arguing against Ganguly's ban for his offence because the poor over rates that much had a lot to do with Salman Butt's cramping during his maiden ton and having to dry the ball almost every 2nd delivery because it was wet.

IMO they jumped on the "Let's make Ganguly pay for his past overrate offences" at the wrong time, and even so, continous late overrates still isn't worse than an offensive racist remark. No way in hell.
 

Raymond

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
I found it pretty interesting, although the author has stretched it a bit but there is some truth in that

Great Article, opened a can of beans
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Chris Broad is an idiot. And he likes to be at the centre of attention. All that is obvious. But racism is too strong a work, like the others have pointed out. I still have no doubt that he is amongst the worse match referees today and needs to be taken out. But he doesn't even compare to that joker Cammie Smith.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
Ganguly has been a shocker with overrates and it used to annoy the hell out of me, but I distinctly remember arguing against Ganguly's ban for his offence because the poor over rates that much had a lot to do with Salman Butt's cramping during his maiden ton and having to dry the ball almost every 2nd delivery because it was wet.

IMO they jumped on the "Let's make Ganguly pay for his past overrate offences" at the wrong time, and even so, continous late overrates still isn't worse than an offensive racist remark. No way in hell.
Let's remember that Lehmann made the remark in question when he was off the field, though. It doesn't excuse it, but I think you can make a fair argument that banning a player for a long period for something he said on the way to the dressing room is a bit out of the sphere of control for a match referee, while consistently slow over rates are not.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Who banned Lehmann then? The ACB/Cricket Australia? I can't recall it was that long ago.

And I'm sure if someone is heard showing dissent to an umpire off the field, but on the way to the dressing room, he'd still be punished by the match referee.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
Who banned Lehmann then? The ACB/Cricket Australia? I can't recall it was that long ago.

And I'm sure if someone is heard showing dissent to an umpire off the field, but on the way to the dressing room, he'd still be punished by the match referee.
It was the ICC itself, rather than the Match Referee. Clive Lloyd (who was the referee) reprimanded Lehmann, and Malcolm Speed (interestingly another person who is regularly accused of racism on ICF and similar sites) suspended Lehmann, after the apology was issued.

From an Age article:

"I am aware that Mr Lehmann has apologised for his actions and that the Sri Lankan team was reluctant to lay any formal charges," Speed said.

"I have, however, carefully considered the situation and in the interests of eradicating racial vilification in international cricket I am bound to lay this charge." Lehmann was severely reprimanded by match referee Clive Lloyd, who acted on an informal complaint from Sri Lanka's team management after the Australian was overheard making a racial slur as he entered the dressing room after he was run out in his team's run chase.

The middle-order batsman also drew strong censure from Sri Lankan cricket chairman Hemaka Amerasuriya, who said if the comments were not racist they were close to it. "We are very unhappy this has happened," Amerasuriya said. "I'm not going to make a broad statement about Australia being racist, but comments of this nature are really unfortunate.

"There is no doubt that this borders on racism."


And I think with the referee and dissent, it would depend. If a player was showing dissent while walking off the field, certainly, but if he was overheard saying he edged an LBW call or something while walking into the dressing room, I doubt he would be punished for dissent, at least not by the match ref. I don't think anyone would say Lehmann didn't deserve the suspension, but it's not as though he racially abused a player on the field, in which case he would have recieved a much bigger penalty, certainly more than Ganguly did. Apples and oranges.
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
It doesn't matter where Lehmann racially abused the SriLankan Player, the fact is he did is as a cricketer, it was as part of his frustration on the cricket field, hence it is still a much lesser punishment. He should have got a life ban for such an act.

That said, this thread is not about Lehmann and his racial outbursts. This article in the first post tried to paint Broad as a racist by comparing apples and oranges, by putting up incorrect information. Broad didn't ban Lehman, ICC did. Broad's playing career has nothing to do with his role as a referee.
 
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Raymond

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
FaaipDeOiad said:
Let's remember that Lehmann made the remark in question when he was off the field, though. It doesn't excuse it, but I think you can make a fair argument that banning a player for a long period for something he said on the way to the dressing room is a bit out of the sphere of control for a match referee, while consistently slow over rates are not.
Exactly, thats the attitude why some get away scot free !

It's never "too much" or a "bit" for some

Oh well
 

parttimer

U19 Cricketer
H. Singh should have been sorted out earlier, he was chucking with impunity for years. Broad wasn't afraid of being called a racist (which is the logical conclusion of choice for many). Do we have any1 else as brave as Broad on the panel? And why'd he leave?
 

Raymond

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
parttimer said:
H. Singh should have been sorted out earlier, he was chucking with impunity for years. Broad wasn't afraid of being called a racist (which is the logical conclusion of choice for many). Do we have any1 else as brave as Broad on the panel? And why'd he leave?
Isn't it funny, most chuckers come from sub-continent whereas the likes of lee have the cleanest action...

oh wait, thats just a coicidence
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Sanz said:
That said, this thread is not about Lehmann and his racial outbursts.
Outburst. Not plural.

Not excusing it in the slightest - racism in completely evil and should be beyond the pale, but a life time ban for a first offence when that offence is out of character and (almost) immediately apologized for is a bit extreme. The stiff ban, and the damage to his reputation that he suffered are surely the appropriatelevel of punishment.

What about the lack of action against the Pakistan keeper who called Gilchrist 'a white c***' at the '03 World Cup, if you want to talk inconsistency in these things. At least lehmann was a man about admitting his stupid and offensive behaviour
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, a life ban would have been extreme, given that the Sri Lankan team didn't press a complaint, and the incident didn't occur on the field. As serious as racial abuse is, it's not as significant in terms of the rules of the game as cheating, and players have done various things which constitute cheating of one sort or another without recieving life bans. The fact that Lehmann immediately apologised probably impacted on the severity of his sentence as well.
 

Raymond

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Matt79 said:
Outburst. Not plural.

Not excusing it in the slightest - racism in completely evil and should be beyond the pale, but a life time ban for a first offence when that offence is out of character and (almost) immediately apologized for is a bit extreme. The stiff ban, and the damage to his reputation that he suffered are surely the appropriatelevel of punishment.

What about the lack of action against the Pakistan keeper who called Gilchrist 'a white c***' at the '03 World Cup, if you want to talk inconsistency in these things. At least lehmann was a man about admitting his stupid and offensive behaviour
..and who are we talking about here?

Never heard of this incident, any links

Although few of them did use foul lingo when they got sachin and sehwag out, surely coz of the agony they gave them
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Matt79 said:
Outburst. Not plural.

Not excusing it in the slightest - racism in completely evil and should be beyond the pale, but a life time ban for a first offence when that offence is out of character and (almost) immediately apologized for is a bit extreme. The stiff ban, and the damage to his reputation that he suffered are surely the appropriatelevel of punishment.

What about the lack of action against the Pakistan keeper who called Gilchrist 'a white c***' at the '03 World Cup, if you want to talk inconsistency in these things. At least lehmann was a man about admitting his stupid and offensive behaviour
Didn't Gilchrist withdraw that complaint due to it being a misunderstanding and never actually happened?
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Jono said:
Didn't Gilchrist withdraw that complaint due to it being a misunderstanding and never actually happened?
Gilchrist in the end declined to continue pursuing the issue because Rashid Latif denied it, Gilchrist was told it was his word against Latif's, and that the panel couldn't be expected to convict in those circumstances. Gilchrist decided that in the middle of a world cup campaign he didn't need the agro, so let it go. In his book "walking to Victory" he asserts that he remains certain that Rashid did say what he thought he said.

From page 116 of "walking to victory": "Damien Martyn chased it and threw it back to me over the stumps, bring Rashid to the striker's end. Just as I turned to walk back to my keeping position, I was certain I heard him call me a 'white c***'.
I couldn't believe what I'd just heard.... I felt I had no choice but to report it to the umpire. I've never had any reason in my whole career to do anything like that beofre. I've been called a lot of names and been sledged in many different ways, in club, domestic and international cricket, and I've given my fair share back, but I've never had the slightest desire to go to an umpire and make a report before."

and pg 117-8, "I put a written report in to Steve Bernard, who in turn passed it on to the match referee, Clive Lloyd. Ironically it had been Clive who had handled Darren Lehmann a five match suspension just a few weeks previously after his comments in Brisbane.
Clive called a hearing immediately. In attendance were Rashid, his captain Waqar Younis, their manager, plus Steve Bernard, Punter, myself and the umpires - including the third umpire. I briefly recounted my version of the incident, then Rashid was given a chance to reply. He asked their team manager to translate for him as he was concerned his English wasn't good enough...
He denied making the comment; in fact, he accused me of making the inappropriate remarks. He claimed that, after he was given not out, I had said that he'd never be given out by that umpire because they were both the same colour - which absolutely floor me. It was probably more distressing than what he'd said on the field.
I hopped straight back in and described exactly what I'd said after the not out. I looked everyone in the eye and said: "I can promise you I would never had said anything like that... Why would I bring this up if I'd gone and made a racist comment myself? Why would I report his comment? Why hadn't he reported it if I'd gone on like that? Why was my reaction so strong on hearing his comment if I had already put the wheels in motion?..
We watched the video and it was clear that Rashid had said something to me, but you couldn't tell what it was.
Clive Lloyd said, "Look, it comes down to one man's word against another's."...

Pg 119 "To his credit, Clive provided as fair a hearing as he could, but 'through lack of evidence' he couldn't convict. That was fine, I understood that and I had no problem shaking Rashid's hand to put what I thought was closure on the whole issue."

Gilchrist goes on to explain how Rashid later came out in the media threatening to sue Gilchrist for defamation, accusing the Australian's of tampering with the media's recording of events on the field, and staging the whole thing to make Lehmann not look so bad. Rashid then came out saying he had good relations with the Australian team and didn't want to sue anyone. gilchrist points out that despite an warning from the ICC hearing not to discuss the issues further in the press, no action was taken against Rashid for these comments, and as such he's including his view of events in his book.

Rashid wasn't caught as red-handed as Lehmann, but still, its not a savoury event. Gilchrist doesn't seem the type to go to so much drama unless he thought he had a case.
 

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