Cricket Betting Site Betway
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 124

Thread: Simon Jones Over-rated?

  1. #1
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    60

    Simon Jones Over-rated?

    To his credit Simon Jones, had excellent figures in the 2005 Ashes series. He was also awarded Wisden Cricketer of the Year for 2006. In addition Simon did well to come back from a terrible knee injury in the earlier Ashes series. Despite these feats though, is it fair to say he is over-rated?

    First point is Simon's ODI form, in 8 matches he has managed only 7 wickets at an average of 40. It's fair to say 8 matches is hardly enough to judge a player, however his first class form is actually worse. Here in 21 matches he has managed 16 wickets at over 50.

    Simon's test form is better, but should his 2005 ashes heroics be removed he averages over 31, in line with his first class performances. Whilst these results are good, they don't really equate well to other members in the English team especially Flintoff and Harmison. They also seem very average by international standards.

    The final point is that Simon has only played 18 test in an injury riddled career. On the face of it, he seems to inconsistently fit to be considered an integral part of any cricket team. Given the few matches he has played, he seems more a good bits and pieces player.

  2. #2
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
    Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    23,883
    I only saw him during the Ashes, and then I got the feeling that he was going to take a wicket with every ball. Whenever he began another spell I started wondering which batsmen he'd get. So in my mind, no he's not over-rated.
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    There or thereabouts
    Posts
    17,778
    Quote Originally Posted by Complicated
    To his credit Simon Jones, had excellent figures in the 2005 Ashes series. He was also awarded Wisden Cricketer of the Year for 2006. In addition Simon did well to come back from a terrible knee injury in the earlier Ashes series. Despite these feats though, is it fair to say he is over-rated?

    First point is Simon's ODI form, in 8 matches he has managed only 7 wickets at an average of 40. It's fair to say 8 matches is hardly enough to judge a player, however his first class form is actually worse. Here in 21 matches he has managed 16 wickets at over 50.

    Simon's test form is better, but should his 2005 ashes heroics be removed he averages over 31, in line with his first class performances. Whilst these results are good, they don't really equate well to other members in the English team especially Flintoff and Harmison. They also seem very average by international standards.

    The final point is that Simon has only played 18 test in an injury riddled career. On the face of it, he seems to inconsistently fit to be considered an integral part of any cricket team. Given the few matches he has played, he seems more a good bits and pieces player.
    But why remove his Ashes heroics? Aside from twisting the stats to suit your argument...

    His Ashes series shows that he can perform when it matters most - and that's good enough for me.

  4. #4
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    5,124
    Isn't he Welsh?

    And no I don't think he is over rated.


  5. #5
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    65,366
    Nah he's just unlucky.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  6. #6
    Cricketer Of The Year JASON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    At Work
    Posts
    7,558
    I expect him to take several 5 wicket hauls against us in the Test series starting in 2 weeks.

  7. #7
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    What happened to my avatar?
    Posts
    1,251
    The jury is a little out on Simon Jones. On another site (a non cricket web site that I talk cricket on for some reason) I called him the break-out star of 2005. He's somebody we all know can take reach amazing heights at his best now, the question is weather he can continue it.

    In the Ashes he was the best bowled England had for a few games. His haul at Old Trafford annihilated Australia. He reminds me a bit of Waqar Yunis in the way he bowled.
    When I heard he wans't playing the 5th test I felt this great power leaving England for some reason. Probably because England bowlers backed each other so much with their pressure that without Jones, the pressure would go away. And it did. Australia were in a fine position in the 5th test (though it really was heading for a draw) because they really let themselves down.

    But you could argue he was England's best bowler in the Ashes and his strike-rate was absolutely amazing. So if he continues that he'll be one of the worlds best.

    In teams you have key players... and Simon Jones is somebody who should be more recognised as a key player. When people asked me who the five best players in the Ashes were, I was the only one who put Jones third. He is a key player who holds the bowling together more than people recognise. And people underrating him are underrating England when they say "they're not as good as they were in the Ashes."

    Jones not being in the team in a massive reason why England aren't performing at their best. If Jones comes back and doesn't play his best, England have trouble.

    An interesting point many, most notedly, people like Murali have made is that the crowny ball used in England swing much better than the kookoburra (can't spell) balls used in India and Australia. Swing becomes such a science that's more complicated than people know. It'll be interesting to see if Simon can swing the ball in Australia.

  8. #8
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fine Leg/Technical Area
    Posts
    17,446
    well when Jones came back from injury in 2004 vs WI & all the hype he was getting, then after he really didn't perform that hot during 2004, i thought then he was. But after the ashes hell no, once he can stay fit he surely will be one of the best around

  9. #9
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Trinidad and Tobago (Trinidad)
    Posts
    36,797
    Simon Jones is a necessity in the world of cricket, especially English cricket. He bowled some breathtaking spells during last year's Ashes, and on the basis of that, people rate him as being capable of bowling breathtaking spells. How, therefore, can he be over-rated?
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."

    The...er...Twitter[/SIZE][/CENTER]

  10. #10
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
    Dick Quicks Island Adventure Champion!
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    not far away from you
    Posts
    14,433

    Icon1

    Quote Originally Posted by Complicated
    To his credit Simon Jones, had excellent figures in the 2005 Ashes series. He was also awarded Wisden Cricketer of the Year for 2006. In addition Simon did well to come back from a terrible knee injury in the earlier Ashes series. Despite these feats though, is it fair to say he is over-rated?

    First point is Simon's ODI form, in 8 matches he has managed only 7 wickets at an average of 40. It's fair to say 8 matches is hardly enough to judge a player, however his first class form is actually worse. Here in 21 matches he has managed 16 wickets at over 50.
    who actually rates simon jones in ODIs though? and very few can claim that he doesnt have the required skill in ODIs, hes simply not had the experience in both List A or international cricket to be able to perform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Complicated
    Simon's test form is better, but should his 2005 ashes heroics be removed he averages over 31, in line with his first class performances. Whilst these results are good, they don't really equate well to other members in the English team especially Flintoff and Harmison. They also seem very average by international standards.

    The final point is that Simon has only played 18 test in an injury riddled career. On the face of it, he seems to inconsistently fit to be considered an integral part of any cricket team. Given the few matches he has played, he seems more a good bits and pieces player.
    Simon Jones is overrated i'll give you that. Of course it was amazing how underrated he was before the Ashes. In fact only a couple of members here(myself included) marked him as a clear threat for the Ashes series and the Aussies clearly made a serious mistake underestimating his ability because his improvements in the year or so before the series was remarkable and it was clear in the series against Bangladesh.
    AFAIC, Simon Jones during the Ashes was as good as any fast bowler ive seen in recent times. His performances against SA may not have been phenomenal, but they were definetly noteworthy, and for the odd occasion that he was fully fit in the summer of 2004, he was a revelation.
    Tendulkar = the most overated player EVER!!
    Beckham = the most overated footballer EVER!!
    Vassell = the biggest disgrace since rikki clarke!!

  11. #11
    International Regular oz_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,977
    Jones was devastating during the Ashes. He ran rampant through the Aussie middle order with reverse swing. When fully fit he is probably England's best fast bowler. He may not be as good as some rate him but he is still a quality fast bowler.

  12. #12
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    What happened to my avatar?
    Posts
    1,251
    He bowled some breathtaking spells during last year's Ashes
    yes! he destroyed their middle order in no time at old trafford

  13. #13
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    24,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Francis
    The jury is a little out on Simon Jones. On another site (a non cricket web site that I talk cricket on for some reason) I called him the break-out star of 2005. He's somebody we all know can take reach amazing heights at his best now, the question is weather he can continue it.

    In the Ashes he was the best bowled England had for a few games. His haul at Old Trafford annihilated Australia. He reminds me a bit of Waqar Yunis in the way he bowled.
    When I heard he wans't playing the 5th test I felt this great power leaving England for some reason. Probably because England bowlers backed each other so much with their pressure that without Jones, the pressure would go away. And it did. Australia were in a fine position in the 5th test (though it really was heading for a draw) because they really let themselves down.

    But you could argue he was England's best bowler in the Ashes and his strike-rate was absolutely amazing. So if he continues that he'll be one of the worlds best.

    In teams you have key players... and Simon Jones is somebody who should be more recognised as a key player. When people asked me who the five best players in the Ashes were, I was the only one who put Jones third. He is a key player who holds the bowling together more than people recognise. And people underrating him are underrating England when they say "they're not as good as they were in the Ashes."

    Jones not being in the team in a massive reason why England aren't performing at their best. If Jones comes back and doesn't play his best, England have trouble.

    An interesting point many, most notedly, people like Murali have made is that the crowny ball used in England swing much better than the kookoburra (can't spell) balls used in India and Australia. Swing becomes such a science that's more complicated than people know. It'll be interesting to see if Simon can swing the ball in Australia.
    we don't use kookaburra balls in India in tests. Maybe from the next series, but not so far in recent years.
    We miss you, Fardin. :(. RIP.
    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
    A cricket supporter forever

    Member of CW Red and AAAS - Appreciating only the best.


    Check out this awesome e-fed:

    PWE Efed

  14. #14
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    24,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    Simon Jones is a necessity in the world of cricket, especially English cricket. He bowled some breathtaking spells during last year's Ashes, and on the basis of that, people rate him as being capable of bowling breathtaking spells. How, therefore, can he be over-rated?
    because he has done it in only one series so far?


    I agree that Jones was really really good in the AShes and even I felt that he was a major star in the making, but the key word there is "in the making". There were still a couple of areas he could have improved on, I felt and then there was his fitness. Plus, it was one series in his home conditions. I would wait till he has played in a few more conditions before calling him "great" and "England would have won had he been there" and stuff. It is like saying Dhoni is a "Great" in ODIs based on his performances in the subcontinent.

  15. #15
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    46,918
    I think TEC is pretty on the mark here. Jones may be a smidge overrated after blowing the Aussies away last year, which is entirley understandable what with them being the best team in the world with (at worst) one of the top 2 batting line-ups, but it's more remarkable that he was so underrated beforehand. I'll give myself a pat-on-the-back here for marking him down as our "dark horse" before The Ashes.

    My big fear is that he will prove to be one of those great "coulda been" talents. He obviously has great ability to bowl fast with reverse, but I can't help but think his body may traduce him.
    Cricket Web's current Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "Ben Stokes, that most unlikely saint, worked the second of the two miracles he needs for his canonisation." - The Guardian's Andy Bell on the England all-rounder's Headingley ton

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 389
    Last Post: 06-10-2013, 10:25 AM
  2. Simon Jones or James Anderson?
    By sledger in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 266
    Last Post: 13-06-2008, 03:12 AM
  3. Sim a match
    By Pratters in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 342
    Last Post: 31-12-2006, 03:03 PM
  4. Simon Jones Sent Home
    By Rich2001 in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 27-02-2004, 03:36 AM
  5. Is Simon Jones really that good?
    By masterblaster in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-11-2002, 02:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •