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Generation of top class Aussie openers Taylor, Hayden, Slater, Langer, Elliot.

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Who do you reckon is the best & who would you rank them?, from what i have seen since the 97 ashes i would say Hayden, Slater, Langer, Taylor, Elliot. Here is how i did it:

HAYDEN: For me he has got to be the best, his dominance over attacks even if most of it has been done in a time when pitches around the world have been flat & bowling attacks poor cannot be totally looked down on. Add to that the way he has come back & changed his game (mainly againts his weakness againts the swinging ball in bowler friendly conditions) since the ashes has been equally superb IMO, so for this i made him my number 1.

SLATER: Superb player on his day, just thrilling to watch especially on his trademark pull where he used to squat down and hit in front of square:cool:.Made runs againts some top attacks in tough conditions. Disappoitingly he made all those 90s he could have & should have had 20 test hundreds. Him and Hayden together would be my dream aussie opening pair of this generation. Second for me.

LANGER: Played the quicks easy early on it seems but spinners coming around the wickets mainly off-spinners used to knock him over. But since the Oval test of 2001 he has really changed him game especially againts the spin (his monumental 178 vs SRI in colombo 2004 proves this) & has become a well respected top class opener. Not the most orthodox obviously but he still scores his runs & at a good rate. Third for me

TAYLOR: Looking at his early days as an opener pre 95 when he became captain he seemed to be one of Australia top batsmen since he made runs againts the best in testing conditions. But i dunno if captaincy affected his batting or what but he seemed to have fell away after that and wasn't as consistent (I remember commentators talking about the trott he was in a lot during the 97 ashes). But in the 18 months or so i saw him he was like Langer of today only with a a better technique and less shots. His 334 though was one of the best innings i've ever seen though. My number 4

ELLIOT: Obviously he would be last. I thought he was fairly good up to the 99 series vs WI when he looked so dumb outside off-stump againts Walsh & Ambrose. But Elliot definately is in the category of unlucky aussies like Lehmann, Law, MacGill, Bevan, Miller who would have played 50 test matches for most other countries.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Hayden's the best - he gets unfairly criticised for being a flat-track bully. He's batting back to his best now and as I said in another thread, he's been making centuries lately on some really tough pitches. People don't give him credit for being able to get his front foot in the right place damn near 95% of the time. He can bat on seaming wickets and swing as well.

It's weird, Hayden gets bowled by some great English bowling and suddenly he's been "found out". Graeme Smith nicks ball after ball by Brett Lee in Australia and oh it's great Lee bowling... which it is. My point is that all batsmen have problems against late swing? Someone explain to me, when the ball it pitched on the stumps, and you have to play a shot, a ball is going 85 miles an hours, it deviates suddenly, and your bowled... how are you supposed to play it?

This whole "found out" term isn't one I believe in a whole lot. More often than not their just deliveries you expect to get anybody out. Hoggard did it to India in India and got 8... yet with similar balls nobody there was "found out!"
 

James90

Cricketer Of The Year
1. Hayden
2. Taylor
3. Langer
4. Slater (sorry matey)
- - - - - - - - - - -
5. Elliott
6. Blewett
7. Hussey
8. Jaques

*Hussey is a better batsman than most of the above listed but has not proven himself as an opening batsman for Australia.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Francis said:
It's weird, Hayden gets bowled by some great English bowling and suddenly he's been "found out". Graeme Smith nicks ball after ball by Brett Lee in Australia and oh it's great Lee bowling... which it is. My point is that all batsmen have problems against late swing? Someone explain to me, when the ball it pitched on the stumps, and you have to play a shot, a ball is going 85 miles an hours, it deviates suddenly, and your bowled... how are you supposed to play it?

This whole "found out" term isn't one I believe in a whole lot. More often than not their just deliveries you expect to get anybody out. Hoggard did it to India in India and got 8... yet with similar balls nobody there was "found out!"
very good points this, i'm definately not the one to answer this but blokes like Richard and TEC who have regularly bashed Hayden for this reason, could answer it i guess.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
aussie said:
very good points this, i'm definately not the one to answer this but blokes like Richard and TEC who have regularly bashed Hayden for this reason, could answer it i guess.
We look forward to some 4000 word essays on the subject.
 

oz_fan

International Regular
I'd have the same list as Aussie. Australia have been lucky to have such great openers over the past ten years, especially when you consider the talent of some of the opners that missed out (Elliot, Blewett, etc). Jaques is coming through the ranks to and looks to be a quality opener. It will be interesting to see who partners him when Langer and Hayden move on.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
James90 said:
1. Hayden
2. Taylor
3. Langer
4. Slater (sorry matey)
- - - - - - - - - - -
5. Elliott
6. Blewett
7. Hussey
8. Jaques

*Hussey is a better batsman than most of the above listed but has not proven himself as an opening batsman for Australia.
how can you even put jaques on that list yet when he has played two test matches.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
I think he was listing every Australian opener he could think of in the last ten years, hence Jacques inclusion. The original post was talking about a generation of players, however, and while generation is such an amorphus term that it can be stretched to include Hussey, I think Jacques' debut probably marks the start of a new generation. (Which I would define as "debuting players who haven't spent most of their playing careers unable to break into the team" - I suppose it would include Clarke, Tait and Dan Cullen)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Francis said:
Hayden's the best - he gets unfairly criticised for being a flat-track bully. He's batting back to his best now and as I said in another thread, he's been making centuries lately on some really tough pitches. People don't give him credit for being able to get his front foot in the right place damn near 95% of the time. He can bat on seaming wickets and swing as well.

It's weird, Hayden gets bowled by some great English bowling and suddenly he's been "found out". Graeme Smith nicks ball after ball by Brett Lee in Australia and oh it's great Lee bowling... which it is. My point is that all batsmen have problems against late swing? Someone explain to me, when the ball it pitched on the stumps, and you have to play a shot, a ball is going 85 miles an hours, it deviates suddenly, and your bowled... how are you supposed to play it?

This whole "found out" term isn't one I believe in a whole lot. More often than not their just deliveries you expect to get anybody out. Hoggard did it to India in India and got 8... yet with similar balls nobody there was "found out!"
It is not just about getting found out. Some people were calling him the best batsman in the world. You cannot be that if your response to getting found out by top quality bowling is to go back to your shell and start playing defensively. Guys like Sachin, Lara and Ponting won't do that but Hayden did. Hence, I do think he was overrated by a fair distance during the early 2000s. He is doing extremely well since the Ashes, esp. since the Ashes, but again, who has been the bowlers he has been facing? He is very good but I find it difficult to call him "great".
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Beleg said:
1. Langer
2. Hayden
3. Slater
4. Taylor
5 Elliot
That would be my list as well. And I do think Elliott had plenty of potential. What happened to him and how did he go out of the reckoning? I don't seem to recall a prolonged lean patch or anything from him.
 

howardj

International Coach
Hayden
Slater (they ruined Slater by dropping him in 1996 - averaging 48 at the time!)
Langer
Taylor
Elliot
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
It is not just about getting found out. Some people were calling him the best batsman in the world.
First off Hayden wasn't found out. Like I said in my examples, most batsmen go out when there's some late swing involved enough times when you pitch the ball on the stumps.
Secondly, Hayden was for a period, the best batsman in the world. He's made over 1,000 runs in a calendar year four times... and that has nothing to do with schedule. Why shouldn't htta be enough? Because he's not graceful? So what? He's effective.

You cannot be that if your response to getting found out by top quality bowling is to go back to your shell and start playing defensively. Guys like Sachin, Lara and Ponting won't do that but Hayden did.
Huh? All that should matter is being effective. Simple as that. Hayden made 130 off 300 balls in the 5th test in the Ashes because that was the fastest he could score the runs. It's simply batting to great bowling. Playing defensive is something I've seen Lara, Tendulkar and Ponting do when they play on tough pitches to good bowling so really I don't know where your coming from.

Hence, I do think he was overrated by a fair distance during the early 2000s. He is doing extremely well since the Ashes, esp. since the Ashes, but again, who has been the bowlers he has been facing? He is very good but I find it difficult to call him "great".
Yeah because South Africa don't have great bowlers? Because the World XI didn't have the best players? Some of these were on some tough pitches as well.

I wouldn't be caught dead saying Hayden is in the same league as Lara, Tendulkar and now Ponting. But the fact is he's had underrated peaks where people criticise him for being a lfat tarck bully when he's made good runs of tough pitches and racked up centuries so very fast. What was it? 20 centuries from 60 tests before his sudden slump? That's amazing.

It's not about grace or technique. Ponting isn't perfect and is an lbw candidate like Inzi early on... he's also suceptable to balls wide of the off stump when he looks to drive. Tendulkar used to be flawless but around 2000 he started skipping a little across his crease. I personally think Lara is perfect... although there's many who's disagree with me and think he leaps forward when he faces deliveries.

It's not about technique, it's about effectiveness and there have been moments in this century where Hayden was making many more centuries than BCL and SRT and doing it effectively.

Graeme Pollock wasn't an attractive batter and some felt he has weaknesses, but he was effective. Pollock himself only felt that if you pick the line of the ball and put your foot in the right spot... what's the problem?
 

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