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Thread: Fixated on facts and figures!

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    U19 Vice-Captain DanielFullard's Avatar
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    Fixated on facts and figures!

    Fixated on facts and figures!

    Cricket is more than game played on paper. Yet if you listened to some fans you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

    Basically this thread and my rant-ish argument derives from a line of debate in the England in India thread above and concerns the tendency of some Cricket fans and even pundits/journalists to get wrapped up in streams of facts and figures and forget about what matters most….the physical playing of the sport. Admittedly, Cricket is a fact heavy game and a lot of the time using facts bolsters arguments but some people have the tendency to get carried away and end up quoting realms of figures without any substance. Facts do matter, figures do matter but sometimes I think people need to bare in mind there is more to cricket than purely facts and figures.

    That is why for instance I much prefer to hear the thoughts of fans who have actually been to the games and can give a good indication of how a player is doing rather than someone who has never seen the guy play trying to argue a case based on figures alone.

    I have had trouble wording this thread but hopefully I have got my point across but just to reiterate, do you think some people get carried away with facts and figures? Don’t get me wrong, facts and figures are essential to cricket and provide a more than basic outline as to how well a player is doing but sometimes I find myself getting annoyed at people who solely rely on facts and figures as the basis for their opinions. I am not pointing the finger at anyone on here and really professional magazines and newspapers are just as guilty but its one tendency amongst Cricket buffs I find quite irritating.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    U19 Vice-Captain DanielFullard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    Stats can enhance knowledge, but all too often they are a substitute


    You have basically said in one sentence what it took me 3 paragraphs to say!

    Spot on!

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    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    People definitely do show an overreliance on statistics once in a while. Statistics are tools for us to construct arguments, but people stretch that definition just a little too far.


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    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    I can understand what youre saying mate. However I do think figures are pretty important. For instance, I think the best batsmen in the world are guys like Ponting, Dravid, Kallis, Inzy, Hayden. They also have outstanding stats. Figures, granted, are not everything, but they do give a pretty good guide for players who have played 20+ games.

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    Cricket Web Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielFullard
    Basically this thread and my rant-ish argument derives from a line of debate in the England in India thread above and concerns the tendency of some Cricket fans and even pundits/journalists to get wrapped up in streams of facts and figures and forget about what matters most….the physical playing of the sport. Admittedly, Cricket is a fact heavy game and a lot of the time using facts bolsters arguments but some people have the tendency to get carried away and end up quoting realms of figures without any substance. Facts do matter, figures do matter but sometimes I think people need to bare in mind there is more to cricket than purely facts and figures.
    Granted, in an argument where the aim is to distinguish between two players as to who is better, the real goal is to see who performs better. Performance is quantified by the amount of runs or wickets. In those instances, the use of facts and figures as a major part of the argument is very much justified.

    For example, in terms of distinguishing who is the better batsman between Ganga and Dravid, some would say they prefer watching Ganga or that in terms of physical play, Ganga matches Dravid in technique admirably. The fact is that Ganga hasn't backed that physical aspect with performance and statistics reflect this adequately.
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."

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    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup
    Blasphemy.

    Then again ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup
    I've made my bed with refusing to rate Pathan now. Same as Graeme Smith - no matter how many runs/wickets they get, I get in this mindset, then I refuse point-blank to accept any improvement ever. It's much like Richard, only with much more sarcasm and bread products.
    Shame on you.

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    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    If team A scores 330, and Team B scores 215. Team A are the winners

    Stats, at the end of the day, are all that matters.. Prize money isn't awarded to the batsman who suprised a few with his strokeplay, or the bowler who had Lara dropped on 56 before he goes on to make 200, because that doesnt go down in the book...

    I look forward to the day that they don't play cricket, and then I can go and photograph the old man, with the weathered face, who will input values and algorithms into a computer program coming out with one hell of an Ashes series..
    Last edited by Langeveldt; 20-04-2006 at 06:12 PM.
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    International Debutant Pedro Delgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    Stats can enhance knowledge, but all too often they are a substitute
    I'd like to see some figures that back up your sentence, please.
    Last edited by Pedro Delgado; 20-04-2006 at 07:38 PM.
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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Stats aren't everything that's for sure, but cricket is one of few sports that rely so heavily on pure statistics. To my knowledge only baseball would come close one would think.
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    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro Delgado
    I like to see some figures that back up your sentence, please.
    I'm in 86 % agreement with you.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltman
    I'm in 86 % agreement with you.
    Yes, but 78% of statistics quoted on an international forum are something.

  14. #14
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    I look forward to the day that they don't play cricket, and then I can go and photograph the old man, with the weathered face, who will input values and algorithms into a computer program coming out with one hell of an Ashes series..
    You've already met Richard once though haven't you?

    Isn't it tempting fate to go for a repeat?!
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    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
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    I think the main problem with stats is that they can prove anything you want as long as your willing to add the neccesary stipulations.

    That said, i think it's great to look at all these complex stats, justa s logna s you don't read to deeply into their meanings.

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