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Constant tampering ruining the one-day league in England?

DanielFullard

U19 Vice-Captain
Constant tampering ruining the one-day league in England?

I know this is probably suitable for the English Domestic Thread but I feel that maybe its worth a thread of its own.

The tampering with the format of the English Domestic Season has left me annoyed yet again. It’s made even worse due to me being a Durham fan and we scrapped all season to gain promotion and what do we have awaiting us? A crappy Pro40 league that seems nothing but something tacked on at the end of the season just for the sake it.

The CGT reforms have ruined the One Day season. Yes the cup is still important and still has prestige but it was so much better in the simple cup format of loose and you’re out. Now we have a horrible league format that will lead to many many nothing games when sides will have nothing at all to play for other than pride. Yes, it will give youngsters the chance to come in and prove their worth but this isn’t what a cup should be about. A cup should be about every match meaning something, about a loss meaning elimination.

And the main loser in these reforms is the one-day league .Now we have a pathetic PRO40 league with a measly 8 games a season….8 games??? It is hardly worth it. 40 overs is too few as well. What is the point in these reforms to the one-day league? I cant see any other than to make time for CGT and 20/20. The one day league has proved time and time again to be a thrilling, enjoyable and attractive game that whilst not a patch on the CC is still a good format of cricket. Now with only 40 overs and 8 games it hardly constitutes a season at all. Winning it would still be a huge achievement for any team and a proud one but even if my team won it I couldn’t help feel a little annoyed. Basically it’s just the group stages of the CGT without a final isn’t it? That’s darn annoying. Why have a CGT and NL which are virtually the same thing bar the promotion and relegation and different make ups?

And slap bang in the middle is 20/20. If it brings much needed money to clubs fair enough but when it starts effecting the rest of the domestic game I begin to rethink my support for it. Without 20/20 the 40 over league (or however many overs they have decide) would still have meant something and still be 16-18 games long.

So what do you think about the reforms for the present season?
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
What I would have liked to have seen is an 8 day domestic one day cup called the Pro50.. What kind of a number is 40 for playing cricket? Surely you want players day in day out to be playing the same kind of stuff england do with their ODI's? 8 games is enough, and raises the intensity somewhat

But what would cricket be if there wasnt pointless tinkering and crap moneymaking schemes?
 

DanielFullard

U19 Vice-Captain
Compared to other sports we have seen quite a change. It was a 65-over league at first wasn't it and since then it has came down and down and the Cup has been altered. there was no need for this current change
 

Autobahn

State 12th Man
Well actually other domestic seasons only play around 5-10 one day matches per team so it's hardly pathetic really.
 

DanielFullard

U19 Vice-Captain
Autobahn said:
Well actually other domestic seasons only play around 5-10 one day matches per team so it's hardly pathetic really.
Its a pale shadow of the league we used to have. There was nothing at all wrong with the format last season. Having the limited over leagues as an 8-game season makes it the same as the CGT group stages virtually.

Its it two up two down in the Pro40 this year?
 

steds

Hall of Fame Member
I would either disagree or not care, but I don't understand the format this year. So I agree.
 

DanielFullard

U19 Vice-Captain
steds said:
I would either disagree or not care, but I don't understand the format this year. So I agree.
:laugh:

Nicely put!

Basically the one-day league is 8 games per team, 4 home 4 away with the same points system as last year. It doesn't begin until the last few months of the season.

And the CGT is basically the same. Two groups of 10 split into North and South, 5 games home and 5 away and laughably only one team qualifying for the final. Surely it would be wise to have the top 2-4 qualifying to avoid the wealth of pointless games we are going to get as early as week 4
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
DanielFullard said:
Compared to other sports we have seen quite a change. It was a 65-over league at first wasn't it and since then it has came down and down and the Cup has been altered. there was no need for this current change
The National League started in 1969 as a 40-over competition. It was changed to 45 in 1999, and now has been given a different format.
I don't, personally, find too much wrong with a 40-over competition. It's still credible as good one-day cricket, rather than one-evening (\one-morning) Twenty20 games. Good bowlers can still bowl economically in 40-over cricket.
The C&G did indeed start as a 65-over comp, but only for 1 season. It was 60 overs between 1964 and 1998. Then it became 50 overs.
England home ODIs were 55 overs from the start to 1995 - World Cups, however, were 60. At least, in England in the first 3. In 1987, it went down to 50.
Then there was the now-defunct B&H Cup, which IIRR started 55 and went to 50 sometime. Probably about 1996.
I do, however, find the current changes ludicrous. I think the C&G worked best as a straight knockout; apparently, however, counties find the 40-over game is more crowd-friendly than the 45-over one. Given that the one-day game, unlike the First-Class one, does have potential domestically, that is an important consideration.
As such, from a crowd-attracting POV you want more 40-overs games. From a development POV, it'd be better if the C&G was the 40-over comp and the National League the 50-over one - providing you retained the old format of C&G straight knockout, National League H&A 9-team 2-division thing.
It's a difficult balancing-act.
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
I don't have much of a problem with 40 over cricket, it's the change in the C&G which I'm more annoyed at. We now have two 'league' style OD games, and there is no longer a classic knock out competition. The only reason the ECB have given for the changes is to let the players get more exposure to 50 overs cricket. Simple solution - play 50 over one-day cricket in the league, like every other country in the world does.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
As I say - there's a good reason why that's not been done - in England, 40-over cricket is considered more crowd-friendly.
Presumably, in Australia, West Indies etc. crowds are happy to come to 50-over domestic matches (obviously not in the numbers that attend ODIs, but bigger than those who attend the League).
As I also said - it's a difficult balancing-act. I don't think the solution currently being tried is the right one, but nor do I think there's any magic-bullet.
 

open365

International Vice-Captain
Now you mention it, that format is a complete joke, playing more games in the cup than in the league, pathetic.

I don't see what they acheive by ruining the C + G, the only reason they can get away with this is because no body likes county cricket, and i'm not suprised if this is the way they treat it.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Nobody likes the C&G or the National League?
Very far from true.
Nobody likes the Championship - yes, but that's not been changed.
 

DanielFullard

U19 Vice-Captain
in England, 40-over cricket is considered more crowd-friendly
But that is foolish logic by the ECB. 40 over cricket is not anymore attractive than 50 over cricket. Going to a match or watching it on Tv still consumes most of your day. 40 over Cricket isn’t going to attract a bigger crowd. That is what 20/20 is for.

A 50 over, 18 game league with a 40-45 over cup competitions is the best solution all round

The National League is a joke and it makes all that promotion celebraiton seem worthless. The CGT format is horribly ill-conceived. If they want to pull people through the gates what is the point in devising a competition that will result countless matches of irrelevance. Face it, a team plays 9 games, they loose the first 3-4 and the last 5-6 will be rendered irrelevant. Heck, the league could be won early and we could be left with a situation of 2 weeks of nothing fixtures. Having only one qualify for the final is a horrible near idiotc idea
 
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Langeveldt

Soutie
Richard said:
As I say - there's a good reason why that's not been done - in England, 40-over cricket is considered more crowd-friendly.

So why don't we reduce every game to one over a side? And then this "crowd" we've suddenly had to cater for can get home in time for watching football or big brother..
 

Autobahn

State 12th Man
Langeveldt said:
So why don't we reduce every game to one over a side? And then this "crowd" we've suddenly had to cater for can get home in time for watching football or big brother..
Ah always the cheerful type. :laugh:
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The National League is hugely devalued IMO, not necessarily by having 5 less overs, but by the fact that it's only 8 games, and you only play each team once, which brings in a random element - the purpose of a league is surely to show which side can prevail in all conditions? Just off the top of my head a side could get very lucky by being a batsman friendly side and playing teams whose strength lies in their attacks, on flat tracks. It's a farce, if I was a Durham fan i'd be peeved as well

And a straight knockout for the Cup is obviously the best idea. You have the National League for your league, and the Twenty20 has a group stage anyway, and as Neil said, Devon don't get to play, neither do Shropshire, Cheshire, etc. Stupid, I can't help but think this season the league and cup winners would both have justifiable claims to being the best one-day side in the country, yet it should always be the league winners who get to make that claim.

Alas, bigger crowds means more money for the counties, which means better development, and it's better for the national side in the long run. I just feel that they could bring in the crowds differently.
 

DanielFullard

U19 Vice-Captain
The National League is hugely devalued IMO, not necessarily by having 5 less overs, but by the fact that it's only 8 games, and you only play each team once, which brings in a random element - the purpose of a league is surely to show which side can prevail in all conditions?
Indeed. The 5 overs reduction would have been much more tolerable without the laughable 8-game season

Alas, bigger crowds means more money for the counties, which means better development, and it's better for the national side in the long run. I just feel that they could bring in the crowds differently.
But I dont see the logic behind this. Fair enough CGT reform means more games but taking 8 games away from the NL league sort of balances it out. And whilst every game in the NL means something, because it should be the OD domestic game, the CGT will be over for any side that looses 3-4 of the first 4 matches.

ECB once again showing that logic doesn't come into their decision making
 

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