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They could have been great but...

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
A place to list players who could have been great but something happened or there was some reason why they did not.

If there are enough responses Id like to see what an XI would look like.

Just a few off the top of my head (obviously influenced by modern players)

Archie Jackson
Reason- Died

Vinod Kambi
Reason- Personality and Attitude

Brett Schultz
Reason- Injuries, Injuries, Injuries

Graeme Hick
Reason- Handled badly, Unrealistic Expectations, Mental Weakness

Nantie Hayward
Reason- Injuries and Attitude

I am ignoring SA cricketers from the 70s and 80s due to the fact that there are a lot who could have made the list and there is a blanket reason why they did not succeed.

There must be many more..
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Mark Ramprakash

also Graham Hick was useless agaisnt fast bowling and that was the main reason for him never making it
 

archie mac

International Coach
Just a few Aussies to consider

Matthew Elliott (Graeme Pollock after watching him bat said he would finish with an average of fifty)

Bob Cowper (retired when at the peak of his form and still a young man, for business reasons)

Jack Massie (was the best bowler in the country, but war injuries ended he career, the same for Ross Gregory who was killed in the war)

Albert Trott (left for county cricket, and was one of the best players in the World)

Sid Barnes (ave over 60 after 13 Tests and was left out for 'reasons other than cricket')
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Pothas said:
Mark Ramprakash

also Graham Hick was useless agaisnt fast bowling and that was the main reason for him never making it
Without wishing to criticise anyone for criticising Hick, and not really willing to go out on a limb and 'do a Richard', I find it hard to describe Hick as 'useless' by any stretch of the imagination (glosses over test career) - he has, after all, got 168 centuries in all competitions - and some of those were made against pace.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I don't know if he'd have been in the pantheon with the greats, but Colin Milburn would almost definitely have played more than just the 9 tests if he hadn't lost an eye in a car crash.

I think Basil D'Oliveria would've had an even more impressive career if he had debuted in tests at 24 rather than 34.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
luckyeddie said:
Without wishing to criticise anyone for criticising Hick, and not really willing to go out on a limb and 'do a Richard', I find it hard to describe Hick as 'useless' by any stretch of the imagination (glosses over test career) - he has, after all, got 168 centuries in all competitions - and some of those were made against pace.
Certainly Hick was a very very good county player but i against really quality pace bowlers he just counldnt cut it.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Pothas said:
Certainly Hick was a very very good county player but i against really quality pace bowlers he just counldnt cut it.
So they say - which is why I'm saying no more on the subject.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Pothas said:
Certainly Hick was a very very good county player but i against really quality pace bowlers he just counldnt cut it.
Here in lies the argument. He sure didn't cut it at test level against the quicks but that is different to couldn't.

Hence the reason he is on this list.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
Mike Proctor - apartheid.
I was leaving out the SA apartheid players as there are so many who could have been great. However, as you mention Proctor I think it only fair to mention- Vince van der Bijl

also to add to the list

Bart King
Reason- American
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Pothas said:
Certainly Hick was a very very good county player but i against really quality pace bowlers he just counldnt cut it.
absolute utter garbage. you would of course like to explain to me how he managed this then: http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype
averaging 47 for a 3 year period despite playing the likes of ambrose,walsh, bishop, benjamin, mcdermott,hughes, donald, pollock all in their primes.
and oh everyone knows about his problems against waqar younis, in 8 innings in FC cricket against waqar younis his scores were: 145,85,182,9,65,31,13, 66.
so much for him struggling against quality fast bowling.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Goughy said:
Nantie Hayward
Reason- Injuries and Attitude

i dont see any reason why nantie hayward could have been great. not only was he an extremely wayward fast bowler but other than pace he had no other attributes(swing,cut etc) that would trouble batsmen
 

tooextracool

International Coach
heres my list over the 14 years that ive watched cricket:
Craig White: if it werent for injury would have probably been one of the best fast bowlers around and a quite handy batsman.
Mark Ramprakash- technical god, poor temperament
Angus Fraser- see craig white(exclude handy batsman part)
Mark Butcher- poor temperament, hampered by injury, and for part of his career-an inability to play spin
dean headley-injury
darren lehmann- not given a chance in his prime due to the strength of the australian test side
Javagal Srinath- a rare occasion when temperament has actually affected a bowler for an extended period of time. For years he tried to use his pace to bowl short pitched deliveries, and by the time he learnt he was too slow to be anything great.
Ajay Jadeja(ODIs)- match fixing
Chris cairns - injury
Roger twose(ODIs)- retired during his best years, still arguably NZ's best ever ODI batsman
Dion Nash- injury
Nathan Astle- poor temperament
Shayne O'Connor- injury
 

C_C

International Captain
tooextracool said:
absolute utter garbage. you would of course like to explain to me how he managed this then: http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype
averaging 47 for a 3 year period despite playing the likes of ambrose,walsh, bishop, benjamin, mcdermott,hughes, donald, pollock all in their primes.
and oh everyone knows about his problems against waqar younis, in 8 innings in FC cricket against waqar younis his scores were: 145,85,182,9,65,31,13, 66.
so much for him struggling against quality fast bowling.
Has it ever occured to you that many bona-fide alltime greats dont really give a toss about FC cricket and play it pretty much with a 'one step above net practice' mentality ?
He struggled mightily against Waqar and Ambrose - was distinctly vulnerable to Waqar's toecrushers and Ambrose's ball that pitched on good length and rose to the ribs.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
C_C said:
Has it ever occured to you that many bona-fide alltime greats dont really give a toss about FC cricket and play it pretty much with a 'one step above net practice' mentality ?
A large majority of players actually put in a good deal of effort while playing county cricket in particular. I cant see why any competitive player would not want to put in the hard work when playing for a county side because if you dont you'd probably struggle to make the side in the first place. No so they might be a little bit more conservative when it comes to playing county cricket as opposed to international cricket but why a bowler would not bowl his toe crushing yorkers(especially knowing that he'd gotten his opponent out with that several times at the international level) at the domestic level or why he would not bowl his outswingers or traditional banana reverse swingers is beyond me. As such Waqars record for surrey is 232 wickets at 19.05, which suggests that he must have at least bowled well.

C_C said:
He struggled mightily against Waqar and Ambrose - was distinctly vulnerable to Waqar's toecrushers and Ambrose's ball that pitched on good length and rose to the ribs.
oh really? so ambrose just forgot how to bowl those deliveries in this series then? http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=0758&Series=0359

yes ambrose did cause him problems dismissing him 11 times in hicks career, yet 6 of those happened in one series(his debut series). after that he played a mere 14 tests against ambrose and was only dismissed 5 more times, and in 2 of those series he was moderately to extremely successful.
 

C_C

International Captain
I cant see why any competitive player would not want to put in the hard work when playing for a county side because if you dont you'd probably struggle to make the side in the first place.
You honestly think that alltime great bowlers like Waqar, Amby etc. would struggle to get in a county side unless they played 110% ?
They could and often did sleepwalk through their games and still end up with 4-60 kinda figures.

oh really? so ambrose just forgot how to bowl those deliveries in this series then? http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/St...58&Series=0359

yes ambrose did cause him problems dismissing him 11 times in hicks career, yet 6 of those happened in one series(his debut series). after that he played a mere 14 tests against ambrose and was only dismissed 5 more times, and in 2 of those series he was moderately to extremely successful.

Ambrose was not the only one who could make the ball climb to yer ribs from goodlength...Walsh could ( IMO better than Ambrose because Walsh was an excellent inswing bowler) and so could Bishop.
This was a weakness that was his prime downfall along with serious mental weaknesses. But like the saying goes, every dog has his day- one or two good scores proves nothing really, especially on the back of numerous really poor scores.
 

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