Indian test squad for West Indies

[pug]

Originally Posted by fishyguy

I hope this is the tour Windies can finally turn things around.

I would hope not.

Yup, we can do without all these makeshift keepers. Dhoni, or Karthik. Lets not even consider Dravid or like Arjun puts it - deep dasgupta clones.

Although, I would also consider Piyush Chawla, if only for him to gain some experience. maybe give him a match if the occasion rises and let him play besides Kumble.

[adharcric]

Suresh Raina CAN NOT keep wickets. Robin Uthappa CAN keep wickets but is not a regular wicketkeeper; besides, he's pretty sharp in the field.

[adharcric]

Virender Sehwag
Wasim Jaffer
Rahul Dravid (c)
VVS Laxman
Yuvraj Singh
Mohammad Kaif
Suresh Raina
MS Dhoni+
Anil Kumble (vc)
Harbhajan Singh
Irfan Pathan
Munaf Patel
S Sreesanth
Vikram Singh
RP Singh
16th Member: Dinesh Karthik or Venugopal Rao

***Jaffer over Gambhir***
Jaffer did well enough against England to earn another full series as opener
***Raina over Tendulkar***
It's better not to rush Tendulkar back into action, let him recover and regain his form and fitness first.
***Dhoni over Karthik***
Ideally, I'd like to see both of them in the squad so Dhoni doesn't take his spot for granted, but we need to back Dhoni and let him prove his mettle.
***Bhajji over Powar***
Bhajji seems to finally have regained his form, he should be high on confidence right now.
***VRV over Powar***
We shouldn't have 3 spinners in the squad outside the subcontinent. VRV could really impress here.
***Karthik or Venugopal*** (16th optional member)
Again, Karthik's presence will let Dhoni know that he needs to perform. Venugopal will provide an 8th batsman, which would be nice to have if we go with 6 specialist batsmen. Powar is very good, but he isn't needed as much in this side. Chawla shouldn't be anywhere near this side if Powar isn't in it, he's got PLENTY of time. Tendulkar shouldn't be rushed. Gambhir as a reserve opener isn't required either, Dravid can step in if needed.

[Arjun]

Downtime over (I couldn't access the forums an hour ago, it always seems so long), so back to our topic

Originally Posted by adharcric

***Raina over Tendulkar***
It's better not to rush Tendulkar back into action, let him recover and regain his form and fitness first.

Let's throw this open for debate. That's one side, so the other would be not to rush Raina in when he's not yet ready.

Originally Posted by adharcric

Bhajji seems to finally have regained his form, he should be high on confidence right now.

Bhajji will get you more wickets, but if you are not looking at playing two frontline spinners abroad, Powar is a good choice as a second spinner because he can also score runs. That said, Munaf Patel has to be involved more in batting.

[adharcric]

On Raina ~ I think he is ready, he's shown plenty of maturity in this one-day series and although he is only 19, he has plenty of domestic experience unlike Piyush Chawla, who needs more grooming before making the step up. He's young yes, but he's much more experienced than other 19-year old prospects we've seen.

On Bhajji ~ While Powar is a good batsman, Bhajji has done very well as a batsman lately. I know we'd like to think Powar still remains the better batsman overall, but surely "batting" can't be the reason to keep Harbhajan out ... he's been one of our leading batsmen of late.

On Munaf ~ He can definitely blast, but he's far from a "batsman" by the looks of it, really pathetic technique. A potentially dangerous slogger, yes, but I wouldn't count on him consistently resisting good bowling attacks like a Powar, Harbhajan or Kumble can.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by adharcric

On Raina ~ I think he is ready, he's shown plenty of maturity in this one-day series and although he is only 19, he has plenty of domestic experience unlike Piyush Chawla, who needs more grooming before making the step up. He's young yes, but he's much more experienced than other 19-year old prospects we've seen.

On Bhajji ~ While Powar is a good batsman, Bhajji has done very well as a batsman lately. I know we'd like to think Powar still remains the better batsman overall, but surely "batting" can't be the reason to keep Harbhajan out ... he's been one of our leading batsmen of late.

On Munaf ~ He can definitely blast, but he's far from a "batsman" by the looks of it, really pathetic technique. A potentially dangerous slogger, yes, but I wouldn't count on him consistently resisting good bowling attacks like a Powar, Harbhajan or Kumble can.

Raina has done well playing in domestic FC matches averaging 68, but hasn't had much experience facing touring sides or A teams. He's still worth a try.

Bhajji has just had one good outing with the bat and nothing more. Whatever he can do with the bat, Powar can do better. He has a proven record of scoring over 50 (including a few over 100) from positions eight and nine. The truth is, since the team management (and most fans) don't want two frontline spinners in the side– then again, the conditions in WI don't favour seamers these days– come to think of it, they don't favour any bowler!

As for Munaf, his batting is not as bad as it is made out to be. He may be technically incorrect, but he makes up for that in striking power. There have been stories of how he came in with 4 wickets of his club side down for not too much, then he smashed a century in 40 balls. Even at the first-class level, his chunks at more than a run a ball have bailed his team out of trouble regularly, and have put the bowling side on the back foot quite often. Since he's been picked ahead of Pravin Kumar, with better FC stats this season, and he can bat a bit, it's better to make use of that, not to replace the top seven, but to assist them. He scores a lot quicker than Kumble and has a technique better than Harbhajan and far better than VR Singh, whose bizarre slogs have often boosted his team's totals.

I'm talking of this combination-

• Sehwag
• Gambhir
• Dravid
• Raina
• Yuvraj
• Dhoni
• Irfan
• Munaf/Pravin Kumar
• Powar/Harbhajan
• Kumble
• Sreesnath

[adharcric]

There is no way Munaf has a better technique than Kumble or Harbhajan. Nevertheless, he does have striking power and hopefully he can do some damage with the bat for India in the near future.

Oh yeah, you should give it up with Pravin Kumar for now, the guy is far from a national call-up. He doesn't seem to be pacy so he'll have to grind his way through. Let's wait to see how he does in the Challenger Trophy against the best of the best and then make an assessment. The guy has just done well for a few months.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by adharcric

There is no way Munaf has a better technique than Kumble or Harbhajan. Nevertheless, he does have striking power and hopefully he can do some damage with the bat for India in the near future.

Oh yeah, you should give it up with Pravin Kumar for now, the guy is far from a national call-up. He doesn't seem to be pacy so he'll have to grind his way through. Let's wait to see how he does in the Challenger Trophy against the best of the best and then make an assessment. The guy has just done well for a few months.

Munaf's technique may not be as good as Kumble's (which often looked silly) but the striking power makes up for that. Again, it's not an alternative, but rather, an addition.

Why should Pravin Kumar not play for India? He's a good seam-up bowler and makes up for lack of pace with a consistent line and length and movement off the pitch. There are a few bowlers in India who can bowl fast, and even one will be enough. More importantly, he can score more runs than any of the other pacers in the team, bar Irfan. He's taken more five-wicket hauls than Munaf Patel, and also scored more runs, with three over 50. Everything he's done this Ranji (and ROD) should get him into the side, which needs a player like him.

[adharcric]

Originally Posted by Arjun

Why should Pravin Kumar not play for India? He's a good seam-up bowler and makes up for lack of pace with a consistent line and length and movement off the pitch. There are a few bowlers in India who can bowl fast, and even one will be enough. More importantly, he can score more runs than any of the other pacers in the team, bar Irfan. He's taken more five-wicket hauls than Munaf Patel, and also scored more runs, with three over 50. Everything he's done this Ranji (and ROD) should get him into the side, which needs a player like him.

I'm not debating whether or not Pravin Kumar is good enough to play for India. He may well be good enough, I sure hope so because a cricketer of all-round ability would really help out. Now what I'm saying is that we haven't even seen him in one full season yet (I consider the Challenger an essential part of the season) so it's far too early to make a judgment on whether he should make it to the NATIONAL team. Even Munaf Patel made the step up without Challenger exploits or repeated impressive shows in domestic cricket, but he clearly impressed the selectors and scouts with his pace and swing and it's shown at the highest level already. The other thing that might work against guys like Pravin Kumar and RS Sodhi is the emergence of Pathan as an all-rounder. I know you like to have two all-rounders operating, but quite frankly India's desperation for an all-rounder (like what we had a few years back) has diminished. We also have genuine bowling options like Powar and Harbhajan who are making contributions with the bat. If Pravin Kumar is good enough, I'll be excited for another talented addition to the Indian side, but it's too early to base so much on good statistics in one season; the only thing we know about him besides numbers is one cricinfo season review article. Don't jump the gun so fast.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by adharcric

I'm not debating whether or not Pravin Kumar is good enough to play for India. He may well be good enough, I sure hope so because a cricketer of all-round ability would really help out. Now what I'm saying is that we haven't even seen him in one full season yet (I consider the Challenger an essential part of the season) so it's far too early to make a judgment on whether he should make it to the NATIONAL team. Even Munaf Patel made the step up without Challenger exploits or repeated impressive shows in domestic cricket, but he clearly impressed the selectors and scouts with his pace and swing and it's shown at the highest level already. The other thing that might work against guys like Pravin Kumar and RS Sodhi is the emergence of Pathan as an all-rounder. I know you like to have two all-rounders operating, but quite frankly India's desperation for an all-rounder (like what we had a few years back) has diminished. We also have genuine bowling options like Powar and Harbhajan who are making contributions with the bat. If Pravin Kumar is good enough, I'll be excited for another talented addition to the Indian side, but it's too early to base so much on good statistics in one season; the only thing we know about him besides numbers is one cricinfo season review article. Don't jump the gun so fast.

While I do agree about Irfan, he shouldn't be the lone batsman among the bowlers at seven. Then he'd be playing like Flintoff or Kallis, taking his time and building an innings. He needs to play more freely and attack more, like Pollock, Lee or Razzaq, all of whom have enough batting buffer above or below them.

You mentioned Sodhi, and I am surprised at how he got ahead of Pravin Kumar in the A team. After all, he was nowhere in the top runs or wickets column this season, while Pravin Kumar has been a leading bowler in Ranji (his skills came to the fore after the Duleep Trophy was over) and has been scoring very quickly. We're talking of a role here. Someone at seven or eight, who can score runs very quickly (and hit some big ones) and then support the main bowlers, will be useful. Harbhajan was never a run-scoring option, and he himself never tried to be one, so he's out of it for now. Powar would be the ideal choice away from India, but there are a few who would disagree with him being in the team in home matches.

You need someone at eight to score runs, so that he, together with the man at seven, make up for the one batsman who is now missing, and more importantly, get that extra wicket. If you're not too keen on pushing Munaf for that position, this man is the one to try out. He's just missing the hype and lobbying that helped Munaf so far, which you won't find in the Central teams.

[viktor]

I think Sodhi plays mainly as an opening batsman these days and that may be the reason why he has been selected ahead of an all-rounder.

Re the team to WI, if we do want to rest Sachin, why not go with Venu Rao?
From what I saw of him last yr, he seemed more suited to the longer version. Plus, Raina has played just about a season of FC cricket and might not be ready yet.

[TIF]

Originally Posted by TIF

I would like to see India go in with this combination -

Batsmen:

Sehwag
Jaffer
Dravid
Yuvraj
Kaif
Laxman
Raina
Venugopal Rao

Wicket-Keeperhoni

Spinners:

Harbhajan
Kumble
Ramesh Powar

Pacers:

Irfan Pathan
RP Singh
Sreesanth
Munaf Patel

Only change in this squad of 16 can be - VRV Singh in place of Ramesh Powar. As for having an extra keeper, we have Dravid who can keep.

Heres why I would like this squad -

Tendulkar, should not be hurried into the Indian team. Let Tendulkar be fully fit and if required, Tendulkar can be in the squad later during ODIs.

I would still go in with Ramesh Powar even if it means having 3 spinners in the team. Ramesh Powar, can also bat a bit and playing Ramesh Powar will mean that we will still have 2 spin options if we decide to go in with 5 bowlers + 5 batsmen combination. This means that we will need 2 spinners and 3 pacers. And as the batting will be a bit weakening with only 6 regular batsmen including MS Dhoni, then with the presence of 3 all-rounders, the need of a 7th batsmen wont be felt as Ramesh Powar and Irfan Pathan are all-rounders and Munaf Patel, can bat like Shahid Afridi, can easily go for the big-hits as he has the power. And in this team of 11, I would pick in Ramesh Powar ahead of Harbhajan Singh due to his batting ability and also Harbhajan hasnt done too well outside the sub-continent.

Reason for picking Venugopal Rao - Venugopal Raos batting is more suited to tests than ODIs, but however Venugopal hasnt been doing too badly in domestic ODIs and smashed a 100 off 60 balls this season. But then having Venugopal in ODIs will mean 3 similar type of batsmen in ODIs with Dravid, Kaif and Venugopal. And the reason for recent poor showing by India in tests has been having too many ODI players in the test team. Its time more test players like Kaif and Venugopal got in ahead of ODI players like Yuvraj.

And I just cant understand why is Munaf Patels batting being underrated. Munaf Patel, bats like Shahid Afridi and looks to go for big hits. Also, check out his FC batting stats this season, he has helped his team out of trouble with the bat, check out his 78 against Bengal and his 46* and 30 against Delhi and all 3 innings came at almost a run-a-ball. Its time Munaf was sent in a bit ahead at No. 9 or 10 and be asked to play some big-shots. Even a 10-ball 20 or so by Munaf will be useful towards the end of the innings.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by TIF

Even a 10-ball 20 or so by Munaf will be useful towards the end of the innings.

Not if the side have a 100 run deficit with Dravid at the other end.

[adharcric]

Originally Posted by Arjun

He's just missing the hype and lobbying that helped Munaf so far, which you won't find in the Central teams.

Yes central teams may not get as much hype, but that's quite weak to be honest. Raina, Kaif and RP Singh are playing from India and they are from UP. If Pravin Kumar is good enough, he'll earn this hype too. If he isn't, he won't.

[adharcric]

Originally Posted by marc71178

Not if the side have a 100 run deficit with Dravid at the other end.

your point?