england's post ashes arrogance

[luckyeddie]

Well maybe, if it happens enough you may recognise it as a skill.

The day that happens is the day I buy a Forest season ticket.

 

[Richard]

Well maybe, if it happens enough you may recognise it as a skill.

How is it possible for getting batsmen caught cutting uppishly (when they could cut down) to be a skill?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Jones NEVER looked like a remotely good bowler on the field until summer 2004. He might've had the ability, but he certainly never demonstrated it in a game until that Lord's Test. For all the valid excuses his fans might have, that's fact nonetheless.
Indeed, it wasn't until the Second Test in 2005 that he started looking the finished product or even close to it.
And I'm still certainly not convinced until he bowls well in more than 1 series.

He was bowling very well at Brisbane until the fatal injury I can assure you, you must have missed that one. Up until then I agree, he was picked on pace alone and his line and length was iffy.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

The day that happens is the day I buy a Forest season ticket.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Jones NEVER looked like a remotely good bowler on the field until summer 2004. He might've had the ability, but he certainly never demonstrated it in a game until that Lord's Test. For all the valid excuses his fans might have, that's fact nonetheless.
Indeed, it wasn't until the Second Test in 2005 that he started looking the finished product or even close to it.
And I'm still certainly not convinced until he bowls well in more than 1 series.

Jones WAS bowling well in the First Test of the 2003 Ashes series until he injured his knee, he looked by far and away the best of any of the bowlers up until that point. I stand by what I said in regards to your knowledge on the subject of bowling.

 

[Son Of Coco]

How is it possible for getting batsmen caught cutting uppishly (when they could cut down) to be a skill?

Because it might be a weakness in their game perhaps? Have you heard of a guy called Damien Martyn? Honing in on an area that is perceived to be a batsman's weakness is just as skillful as producing a ball that beats him all ends up and takes off. If you know a guy is going to go for the cut shot, putting the ball in a spot which is a little too high to keep down will probably bring about a false stroke at some stage. I won't go into great detail here cause I think this is the bit you just don't get - the part where batsmen are weak in certain areas of their game and the bowler works this out and bowls to a plan.

 

[vic_orthdox]

At a quick pace, it is very hard for a batsman to "cut down" on a ball that is shoulder height or above. Maybe he should let it go, but it becomes a very hard shot to control if you try to hit downwards on it.

 

[luckyeddie]

Thankfully, it'll never happen.

Anyway, they're all over there.

 

[Smudge]

I stand by what I said in regards to your knowledge on the subject of bowling.

Does it involve the initials S, F and A?

 

[luckyeddie]

Does it involve the initials S, F and A?

Chris Adams's sister Francesca (Fanny for short)? She's a sweet one.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Does it involve the initials S, F and A?

It does, you can have another spin!

 

[Smudge]

I'll buy a vowel thanks.

O for Awesome please....

(perhaps only the Kiwis will get that joke...)

 

[Son Of Coco]

I'll buy a vowel thanks.

O for Awesome please....

(perhaps only the Kiwis will get that joke...)

are you sure you wouldn't rather a U for 'Interest'?

 

[Smudge]

No... and I'm not even going to say fish and chips for you...


Anyway, this was what I was referring to:

20 things you never knew about David Tua
(1). Born on the tiny Western Samoan island of Faleatiu - population @300.

(2). Started boxing aged 8 - his father used to get him to fight grown men.

(3). Won bronze in the 1992 Olympics.

(4). Turned professional in 1992.

(5). Appeared on the New Zealand version of Wheel of Fortune and asked for an "o" - for awesome!

(6). On the same programme asked to buy a vowel - and asked for a "p".

(7). Made the trials for New Zealand's secondary schools' rugby side.

(8). Owns a home in south Auckland.

(9). Had his Mercedes stolen on a visit to New Zealand when he left the keys in the ignition.

(10). Owns a Ferrari, a 1955 Chevy and a 1966 Impala.

(11). Used to work as a dishwasher at the Pan Pacific hotel in Auckland.

(12). Employed the sous chef from the hotel to be his personal cook.

(13). Is a practising Christian.

(14). Is managed by 1984 Los Angeles silver medallist Kevin Barry.

(15). Bought his father a paper recycling business with some of his earnings.

(16). Flattens his stand-up hairstyle with gel before visiting his father.

(17). He has NEVER been knocked down.

(18). Loves playing table tennis.

(19). Put tools under his jacket to qualify for a heavier weight division aged 15.

(20). He and his family emigrated to New Zealand when he was 10.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2000/lewis_v_tua/1004232.stm

 

[Richard]

He was bowling very well at Brisbane until the fatal injury I can assure you, you must have missed that one. Up until then I agree, he was picked on pace alone and his line and length was iffy.

He wasn't bowling well - he just got 1 poor stroke from Langer and conceded plenty. He could have conceded more.

 

[Richard]

Jones WAS bowling well in the First Test of the 2003 Ashes series until he injured his knee, he looked by far and away the best of any of the bowlers up until that point.

That's saying nothing. Caddick bowled crap and Hoggard always bowled crap in those days.
Jones simply bowled a fraction less poorly than them.

I stand by what I said in regards to your knowledge on the subject of bowling.

So long as you do you can win any argument in your mind.

 

[Richard]

Because it might be a weakness in their game perhaps? Have you heard of a guy called Damien Martyn? Honing in on an area that is perceived to be a batsman's weakness is just as skillful as producing a ball that beats him all ends up and takes off. If you know a guy is going to go for the cut shot, putting the ball in a spot which is a little too high to keep down will probably bring about a false stroke at some stage. I won't go into great detail here cause I think this is the bit you just don't get - the part where batsmen are weak in certain areas of their game and the bowler works this out and bowls to a plan.

Isn't it a bit rich that 7 or 8 batsmen could have the exact same weakness?
Incidentally - I understand a perfect amount about exploiting weaknesses in batting.

 

[Richard]

At a quick pace, it is very hard for a batsman to "cut down" on a ball that is shoulder height or above. Maybe he should let it go, but it becomes a very hard shot to control if you try to hit downwards on it.

At a high bounce, more like. Yes, it's hard to hit down on it, very hard - so if you can't safely cut it uppishly, don't go for it.
No shot that is more likely to bring dismissal than runs is EVER worth playing.

 

[Son Of Coco]

That's saying nothing. Caddick bowled crap and Hoggard always bowled crap in those days.
Jones simply bowled a fraction less poorly than them.

So long as you do you can win any argument in your mind.

I'm not looking to win arguments, just an element of common sense...what you say with regards to bowling and targetting batsmen is nonsensical.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Isn't it a bit rich that 7 or 8 batsmen could have the exact same weakness?
Incidentally - I understand a perfect amount about exploiting weaknesses in batting.

Not at all...

Given that you seem to think any ball that isn't absolutely perfect doesn't deserve I wicket I have my doubts that you do. You seem to put things down to 'luck' without being able to grasp that a bowler may put a ball in a certain area as part of a plan.