Do England have a problem with finishing games off?

[JASON]

Yep. I'd like to think my comments were the inspiration behind that wicket.

Anything to help get the lads home!

England are usless..Can't finish a game off to save their lives...just cant take wickets...(cue for another wicket)

The Sky commentators tried very hard over and over again to do exactly what you did .ie to put the Mockers on ie *commentaors kiss of death* . But most were not successful as you were .

And as far as I remember only Nas was succesful once when he praised Dilshan or Kapugedera only to see him get out very next ball. None of the others succeeded although Bumble was the most trying commentator .

He even attempted a distraction theory to put people off the cricket by creating a side show (of humour -re reverse swing etc etc. ) to see if that brought about a wicket for England !!

 

[Scaly piscine]

I must say, I think there's definitely something wrong when the two opening bowlers (one of them captain and batting top 6) bowl 97 of almost 200 overs and the one spinner bowls only 27 (and it wasn't as it he was being pumelled). England have a very good pace bowling list, most of whom can bowl 145+km/h so is their thinking a bit 'pace-heavy' at the moment? I mean for Flintoff to bowl 51 overs in the second innings is just silly. He's the captain so should have been a bit more aware of his support cast and the physical effect on him. Additionally, Flintoff has been a world-class bowler when he's been bowling 145km/h+; if he has to kick back to being a stock seam bowler, I'm afraid he's far less effective and England will (and did) suffer for it.

Hoggard and Flintoff were definitely overbowled, they were just bowling for the sake of it a lot of the time because they weren't the most dangerous by any means. Plunkett and Panesar should have bowled another 10 overs each at least, Collingwood should have bowled a bit more plus the odd over from KP.

England will probably suffer over the course of the season as well as in the game itself after those 51 overs.

 

[Neil Pickup]

u r soo right. england has been like this for a while now. about jones like some one said here. if u see other team's wicket keepers like dohni, gilgrist, akmal, singakara and others they are match winer batsman. we havn't seen any match wining inngs like any of these batsman from jones. they problebly need to give some one else a chance instead of jones. someone who can bat as good as wicket keeping.

And that person is...?

My batting and wicket keeping are about the same. Should I play?

 

[Goughy]

Gilchrist, Sangakkara, Dhoni, Akmal, Boucher, McCullum and Ramdin are all better batsmen generally, though Ramdin is probably pretty close.

Ah, the recurrance of the myth of Boucher as a qualilty batsman.
A good wicketkeeper batsman and a very tidy lower order batsman but he is no where near the level some people make him out to be.

In fact, the difference is marginal bit still true, in test match cricket Jones has played 27 tests and has a higher batting average than Boucher in his last 27.

 

[Goughy]

I may have missed it, but has anyone even mentioned the Champions Trophy Final?

A typical case in point, if ever there was one.

I think it is fair to say that England do have a problem with the above issue. All teams have problems to some extent but England surely do have issues knocking over the tail.
In fact as long as I remember it has been a characteristic of the English Test team, though I may just only remember the bad bits.

 

[tooextracool]

I must say, I think there's definitely something wrong when the two opening bowlers (one of them captain and batting top 6) bowl 97 of almost 200 overs and the one spinner bowls only 27 (and it wasn't as it he was being pumelled). England have a very good pace bowling list, most of whom can bowl 145+km/h so is their thinking a bit 'pace-heavy' at the moment? I mean for Flintoff to bowl 51 overs in the second innings is just silly. He's the captain so should have been a bit more aware of his support cast and the physical effect on him. Additionally, Flintoff has been a world-class bowler when he's been bowling 145km/h+; if he has to kick back to being a stock seam bowler, I'm afraid he's far less effective and England will (and did) suffer for it.

england were always going to struggle after going in with 2 rubbish pace bowlers and one ordinary spinner. i have never subscribed to the idea of flintoff being captain in test matches and i firmly believe that tresco is a much better choice to lead the test side anyways. Flintoff struggled with the ball in India as captain for all bar one innings and has continued the trend into the summer and i think hes a far more capable player when released from the responsibility of leading the side.

 

[tooextracool]

And that person is...?

My batting and wicket keeping are about the same. Should I play?

that person is chris read and he should be in the side ahead of Jones.
seriously is there anything else that Read needs to do in order to win his place back?

 

[tooextracool]

I think it is fair to say that England do have a problem with the above issue. All teams have problems to some extent but England surely do have issues knocking over the tail.
In fact as long as I remember it has been a characteristic of the English Test team, though I may just only remember the bad bits.

england's issue is not finishing games off. Their issue is that they cant maintain their intensity for more than a day(or usually a few hours at best). Multan was a case in point where they screwed up gradually, day after day. The Ashes was no different, although then by some miracle they managed to be saved each time.

 

[Arjun]

Since we're talking of England finishing matches, how would you rate their performance in the final ODI overs, batting or bowling? There definitely is a lot to improve upon in those areas, so what would you recommend?

 

[sideshowtim]

Without a doubt. This is what seperates England from the real world champions like Australia. Australia are magnificent at maintaining intensity over the full 5 days, and once they gain momentum, they rarely lose it. England on the other hand, tend to get on top and then fall asleep and in doing so just scrape a win or draw the game and sometimes lose it out of nowhere. It is a definite problem and they can't ever be recognised as number 1 unless they learn how to put in the killer blow.

 

[LongK]

If England fields like they did against the Lankans, the Ashes will be all but over come Adelaide. England have the potential to share the role of best test playing nation with the Aussies, but, without a noted captain, and over rated bowlers, they have trouble finishing off teams. What they really need is a frontline spinner..

That can TURN the ball

 

[sideshowtim]

England won't have a good spinner in this era. Panesar is average at best and is their best future hope.

 

[LongK]

England won't have a good spinner in this era. Panesar is average at best and is their best future hope.

You never know.. a 17 or 18 year old could miracuasly pop up from county cricket and take the world by storm... highly doubt it

The English pace attack need to get it together and quick if they are of any chance of winning the ashes. Over rated Harmison has got to find form, the same can be sayd about Jones.

 

[sideshowtim]

Well Jones hasn't really proved much in his Test career except that he is pretty good with the duke ball in England. I believe he is a little overrated and Englands pace attack might struggle in the Ashes, especially against a fired up Aussie line-up.

 

[LongK]

Well Jones hasn't really proved much in his Test career except that he is pretty good with the duke ball in England. I believe he is a little overrated and Englands pace attack might struggle in the Ashes, especially against a fired up Aussie line-up.

It will be interesting to see how the English handle the kookaburra and see if they can get some reverse swing going.

Last time they came here they were using a completely different pace attack. Hell, most of the English team havent even set foot on Australian soil.

My only scare is out middle order. Clarke scares me as if he is picked, is going to have to be consistent from the first ball he faces, the same with Marto.

Is also going to be interesting to see which 3 pacemen will be used(im pretty sure they wont pick 5 bowlers or 2 spinners)

 

[tooextracool]

Since we're talking of England finishing matches, how would you rate their performance in the final ODI overs, batting or bowling? There definitely is a lot to improve upon in those areas, so what would you recommend?

i dont know why people look at England's final overs performances in ODIs. Theres plenty of improvement required in all areas at every point of the game. Kabir Ali, Sajid Mahmood and Liam Plunkett are clearly not good enough, none of them should come close to the ODI side anytime soon. Chris Read has to replace Geraint Jones. Ideally i hope Vaughan were to focus on tests and leave the ODI captaincy to Trescothick. ATM my side would look something like this:

Trescothick(c)
Strauss/ Joyce
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
(I leave a gap here hopefully for someone whos been impressing in list A cricket - Usmaan Afzaal?)
Read
Giles/Blackwell
Harmison
Anderson
Gough(due to lack of other options)

 

[wpdavid]

i dont know why people look at England's final overs performances in ODIs. Theres plenty of improvement required in all areas at every point of the game. Kabir Ali, Sajid Mahmood and Liam Plunkett are clearly not good enough, none of them should come close to the ODI side anytime soon. Chris Read has to replace Geraint Jones. Ideally i hope Vaughan were to focus on tests and leave the ODI captaincy to Trescothick. ATM my side would look something like this:

Trescothick(c)
Strauss/ Joyce
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
(I leave a gap here hopefully for someone whos been impressing in list A cricket - Usmaan Afzaal?)
Read
Giles/Blackwell
Harmison
Anderson
Gough(due to lack of other options)

You're probably a bit harsh on Plunkett, and I do worry that Goughie will be even more past it by the WC. Maybe DG so long as he doesn't open the bowling, since it's painfully apparent that he has nothing to offer in that department.
I don't see why Blackwell is seen as being on a par with Giles - their bowling's about the same, but Giles' batting is vastly superior.
And I'd be tempted to give Bell a run opening in this form of the game, with Strauss reverting to 4 where he's played most of his decent oneday knocks.

 

[Autobahn]

Trescothick
*Vaughan
Strauss
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
+Read
Giles
Plunkett
Harmison
Anderson

I still think whatever the situation you should play your first-team captain, from the way Flintoff's been talking i think he would be uncomfortable leading the side instead of a fit Vaughan, and despite of the figures i always think Vaughan looks more comfortable opening.

Read's punchy lower-order batting seems more suited to the one day game then gojo's in the lower order. And despite some people here thinking the opposite i reckon plunkett would make a fine 4th bowler and hopefully his batting might develop more.

Giles over blackwell because simply giles is more consistent with the bat but if he is injured then it's blackwell.

So that's 5 main bowlers and collingwood to make up a couple, and 6 batsmen, a wicketkeeper who inject some life with his batting, one etablished lower-order batsmen in giles and a possible one in plunkett.

Replacements: Kabir Ali, Darren Gough, G Jones, Ian Bell, Ian Blackwell.

 

[Arjun]

They have to get Hoggard in the ODI side and more importantly, in ODI form. His skills in Test matches should be used in ODI's too, and that would make him vastly superior to the likes of Sajid, Anderson, Ali and Plunkett, who form a casino royale of bowling options. If he's not doing well in ODI's, it's a tactical problem with them.

 

[tooextracool]

You're probably a bit harsh on Plunkett, and I do worry that Goughie will be even more past it by the WC. Maybe DG so long as he doesn't open the bowling, since it's painfully apparent that he has nothing to offer in that department.
I don't see why Blackwell is seen as being on a par with Giles - their bowling's about the same, but Giles' batting is vastly superior.
And I'd be tempted to give Bell a run opening in this form of the game, with Strauss reverting to 4 where he's played most of his decent oneday knocks.

Yeah i overlooked Bell, he definetly deserves a run at the top with Tresco. As far as Blackwell v Giles is concerned, i think while Blackwell is a mindless slogger, on his day hes far more capable than anything Giles has ever done. Again at no 8 you usually prefer a lower order slogger to someone who can drop anchor. But really i couldnt care less as to which one was picked because neither are superior ODI players.
With Gough, im tempted to agree with you that hes past it, but his List A record recently seems to be quite impressive and given the options - Mahmood, Plunkett, Kabir Ali etc can't see how hes not worth his place ahead of them.