Is McGrath one of Australia's five best cricket players ever?

[Francis]

Simple question: Is Glenn McGrath one of Australia's five best cricket player ever?

My old list went like this...

1. Sir Donald Bradman
2. Shane Warne
3. Dennis Lillee
4. Keith Miller
5. Greg Chappell

I'm not sure if McGrath is there or not... what say you?

[vic_orthdox]

No.

But by jiminy, he's stiff.

[Robertinho]

Well, I'd try to include the likes of Border and Waugh... too many names to fit in 5. Bradman and Lillee are probably the only two absolute certainties.

[R_D]

Probaly just goes to show how many great cricketers have played for Australia.

Mcgrath wouldn't make top 5 for me either.

[howardj]

He'd be in my top ten:

Bradman
Warne
Miller
Gilchrist
Chappell
Davidson
McGrath
Spofforth
SWaugh
Border

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by howardj

He'd be in my top ten:

Bradman
Warne
Miller
Gilchrist
Chappell
Davidson
McGrath
Spofforth
SWaugh
Border

Ponting must be pushing....

[howardj]

Originally Posted by zinzan12

Ponting must be pushing....

Yeah, in a top ten, the only absolute 'cert' among the batsmen would be Chappell.

Waugh, Border, Ponting, Harvey etc - not much between them, provided Ponting maintains his current standards.

Anyway, back on topic, I'd say McGrath falls just outside the top five.

[social]

McGrath's the best bowler Ive seen.

Not that quick.

Not that much movement.

BUT, gets everybody out on docile pitches with neutral umpires and cant be scored quickly against.

Put simply, the best.

[Matt79]

Originally Posted by howardj

He'd be in my top ten:

Bradman
Warne
Miller
Gilchrist
Chappell
Davidson
McGrath
Spofforth
SWaugh
Border

You wouldn't have Lillee or Lindwall?

[howardj]

Originally Posted by Matt79

You wouldn't have Lillee or Lindwall?

I knew I'd make a glaring omission.

Lillee would be a 'cert' in the top ten.

Don't know enough about Lindwall.

[Matt79]

My top 5, off the top of my head would be:

1. Bradman
2. Lillee
3. Warne
4. Miller
5. Gilchrist

I feel the need to explain Gilly, which is simply because he has redefined the role of the keeper, no international team selects the best keeper anymore, they select the best keeper/batsman, or batsman/keeper. He's average 50+ over many many tests and he's kept generally admirably to Warne and McGill - making him an exceptional allrounder.

Honourable mention goes out to Victor Trumper.

[howardj]

Originally Posted by Matt79

My top 5, off the top of my head would be:

1. Bradman
2. Lillee
3. Warne
4. Miller
5. Gilchrist

I feel the need to explain Gilly, which is simply because he has redefined the role of the keeper, no international team selects the best keeper anymore, they select the best keeper/batsman, or batsman/keeper. He's average 50+ over many many tests and he's kept generally admirably to Warne and McGill - making him an exceptional allrounder.

Honourable mention goes out to Victor Trumper.

Spot on, regarding your Gilly remarks.

Do you really think, though, that Lillee is that much better than McGrath?

[Francis]

I know what you mean about Gilly. When Gilly isn't firing people complain... but how many wicket-keepers averaged above 40, let alone 50? Then there's the fact he's the most impacting batsman since Viv Richards. One good session by Gilchrist can change a game from a team having a grip on Australia to looking dejected and defeated. Teams look for their own Gilchrist. England wanted Geriant Jones to open and tried it once or twice before Jones said it was silly because there's only one Gilchrist. I think it's disappointing that people have a somewhat changed opinion of him since the Ashes. Gilchrist has changed the game and now all countries look to have a keeper on level terms with Gilchrist.

He's one of the few Aussies I really take to. And people forget his centuriy in the ODI's in... forget where it was, but it was the final of the Natwest Series. People also forget his century in the Super Series ODI's. People also forget his 94 in the Super Test. When Flintoff dismissed him people were like "yep Freddie did ti again" as if Gilchrist was bunnied. Gilchrist nearly made a century. And in all three of those games, Flintoff swung the ball and nearly found the edge a couple of times and he troubles Gilly. But Gilly did the job. I hope people don't stop considering him as a great because he really is great and has changed the game.

But... I don't think he's top ten best Aussies ever or maybe even top 15. Lets see...

1. Sir Donald Bradman
2. Shane Warne
3. Dennis Lillee
4. Keith Miller
5. Greg Chappell
6. Glenn McGrath
7. Steve Waugh
8. Allan Border
9. Tiger O'Rielly
10. Clarrie Grimmett
11. Ray Lindwall
12. Allan Davidson
13. Ricky Ponting
14. Richie Benaud
15. Niel Harvey


I suppose you could have Gilly in there ahead of Benaud so I wont blink if somebody has him top 15.

[silentstriker]

As a non-Australian:

1. Bradman
2. Lilee
3. McGrath
4. Warne
5. Miller


Top ten would be

6. Chappell
7. Lindwall
8. Waugh
9. Harvey
10. Ponting ? (pusing into top ten)

McGrath is a ****ing freak. I mean, thats the only way to describe this guy. He gets wickets everywhere, without being a speedster. He is economical, and deadly at the same time. People rate Lilee higher, and he may well be, but if I had to pick one person over a 10-15 year period to revolve my pace attack around....it would be McGrath.

He is sort of like Kumble, in that he is not very flashy, and people don't think of him when talking about real turners like Bedi, but when you actually look at their contributions: All they do is win.

And that, in the end, is what counts. How many times has McGrath steamrolled the opposition's top order? Thats what clinches it for me. He gets the wickets of the best batsmen of the opposition.

[Matt79]

McGrath would be in my top ten probably. I'm going off people who have seen both bowl who all seem to rate Lillee more. It took McGrath a few more matches to get the same number of wickets, and Lillee probably played slightly better opponents.

None of this is denigrating McGrath who is actually somewhat underrated IMO lots of people talk about him being a machine, a metronome etc, using those terms somewhat negatively. It underestimates him.