Is McGrath one of Australia's five best cricket players ever?

[SJS]

Blah, I am obviously not serious.

I know. I should have put a smiley maybe

 

[Jono]

The fact that he is still as dangerous and brilliant as ever with a record that compares with past greats from all different eras despite pitches flattening out and every other thing one can think of favouring the batsman in modern times says to me, yes he is in the top 5 ever. I personally rate him slightly higher than Lillee and Warne (and I see some others here do as well).

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think that one thing that SJS picked up on was how fast bowlers aren't being encouraged to swing the ball in about half the games they play (i.e. one dayers) for fear of being called for wides if a little bit goes wrong. To me, this just stops part of the spectacle, especially considering how much the white ball swings early.

 

[luckyeddie]

Yeah. I thought it was a joke as well. Apparently not.

Any praise for Warne in a certain poster's eyes has to be taken as a slight on, er, another player.

The gulf has to be maintained, real or imaginary.

 

[Ikki]

Any praise for Warne in a certain poster's eyes has to be taken as a slight on, er, another player.

The gulf has to be maintained, real or imaginary.

LOL, if we didn't know, it's been proven again and again just for safety.

 

[Duke]

Top five

My all-time Australian XI:

M Hayden
A Border
D Bradman
G Chappell
S Waugh
K Miller
A Gilchrist
A Davidson
S Warne
D Lillee
G McGrath

I know Border wasn't an opener but he simply must get into the team. Apologies to Neil Harvey, Ricky Ponting, Mark Taylor, Ray Lindwall and Richie Benaud.

 

[bagapath]

well, my top 5 australian cricketers would be the following. i've given weightage to their talents, achievements and impact on the game:

bradman
warne
lillee
miller
trumper

and he is my australian XI

trumper
morris
bradman (c)
g.chappell
border
gilchrist (wk)
miller
warne
lillee
o'reilly
mcgrath

 

[Duke]

Interesting selections, Bagapath. I was focusing on post WWII players, hence my omission of both Trumper and O'Reilly. I like your team.

The only point of disgreement I have is your selection of Arthur Morris over Hayden (or Mark Taylor or Bill Lawry or Bob Simpson for that matter). Morris averaged 46.48 in test cricket, compared to Hayden's 53.08. The argument that Morris faced better bowling attacks is, in my opinion, wrong. Ok, England were strong in the 1950s when Morris played the majority of his test cricket (think of bowlers such as Bedser, Trueman, Statham, Tyson, Laker and Lock), but the other teams in international cricket at that time were relatively weak (compared to now). In comparison, Hayden has made runs against high and low quality attacks from every test-playing nation in the world. Some people like to point out that his struggles in the Ashes series of 2005 showed a weakness against top-quality fast bowling, particularly against (reverse) swing. That's just a load of rubbish. Firstly, although he struggled, he did make 138 in the fifth test under a lot of pressure. A few of Australia's other batsmen (Martyn, Gilchrist, Katich, Clarke) struggled even more. Also, every batsman has a poor series at some stage (Morris in 1950/51, despite a double century). The fact that Hayden has bounced back so emphatically points to his talent, his commitment and his temperament.

 

[Matt79]

I agree with lots of what you say about Hayden, but the argument that Hayden is a "flat track bully" is a dearly held article of faith for many people 'round here. I think Morris/Hayden is a toss-up in my book - one would probably be in my team, but the openers are the most unsettled position in my all-time Aussie XI.

 

[Pratters]

NOW what happens when these same bowlers and batsmen play test cricket.

- Batsmen carry the bad habits learnt in the limited over game into test matches
- on good wickets the Sehwags score triple hundreds without bothering to move either forward or back (excuse the slight exaggeration)
- a new generation of bowlers is here that finds swinging the new ball such a 'miracle' (I have heard Tendulkar saying that Pathan has a God given gift to naturally swing the cricket ball) Where as in the late sixties and seventies that I was playing cricket in Delhi it was impossible to come across a left arm new ball bowler who did not swing the ball in to right handers. I can name ten from Delhi league who swung twice as much as Pathan. There were old men in their forties (ex cricketers) who umpired in these games and played the odd weekend friendly and they would bowl you with swinging slow deliveries unless you were carefull and they ALWAYS landed on a length.

I am amazed at the fuss over movement in the air today. It was common place.

It is not that bewildering that bowlers cannot swing it as much now compared to before. Tony Greig said some thing regarding the whole two piece four piece cricket ball thing some time back on television and Bradman has spoken on it much earlier in The Art of Cricket. Another aspect is the whole process by which cricket balls are made now compared to earlier. While earlier the balls were hand stitched and hand made which resulted in lack on uniformity on the two sides, now the cricket balls are machine made and machine stitched. It means it is that much more difficult to swing the cricket ball now compared to earlier.

 

[silentstriker]

1) Bradman
2) McGrath
3) Chappell
4) Lillee
5) Warne


In that order.

 

[Xuhaib]

1) Bradman
2) McGrath
3) Chappell
4) Lillee
5) Warne


In that order.

Agreed with your top 5 but Waney above Lillee.

 

[SJS]

Is McGrath one of Australia's five best cricketers ever

no

 

[Pratters]

My top 5:

Bradman
McGrath
Miller
G. Chappell
Warne

 

[Slifer]

Yes Mcgrath is one of Australia's five greatest cricketers. In fact IMHO he is fighting it out with Marshall and Hadlee (and to a lesser extent Ambrose and Imran) for the title of best pacer of all-time.

 

[Perm]

My Top 5

Sir Donald Bradman
Greg Chappell
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Keith Miller

Not in that order either. McGrath is just behind Miller.

 

[tooextracool]

Really i cant believe that so many people have Lillee in their top 5 ahead of Mcgrath? How on earth is someone who bowled primarily in batter friendly conditions and still ended up with a superior bowling record inferior to Lillee? Further how can someone who never took a wicket in the WI or India and took 3 wickets in Pakistan at an average of 101 be considered amongst the top 5 players ever?

 

[aussie]

Really i cant believe that so many people have Lillee in their top 5 ahead of Mcgrath? How on earth is someone who bowled primarily in batter friendly conditions and still ended up with a superior bowling record inferior to Lillee? Further how can someone who never took a wicket in the WI or India and took 3 wickets in Pakistan at an average of 101 be considered amongst the top 5 players ever?

Well he did take a wicket in the WI, in World Series Cricket 1979 in the West Indies he took 23 wicket @ 28 if you do the maths, and even though its not part of his test record that series was definately played at a very competitive level.

Yea his record in the sub-continent is poor for such a great bowler but he only played 4 test, due to World series cricket as well he missed 9 test in 1979 & 1980 on tours to India & Pakistan and being such a great bowler he could have well and done well if he had played in those series.

But overall i guess why some would have Lille over McGrath is probably that he was more lethal at his best the Pigeon..

 

[Slifer]

Top 5 Aussies:

Bradman
Miller
Warne
Mcgrath
Chapell

What amazes me is that Australia has a player in each of cricket's major disciplines who could be argued as being the best!! Bradman is certainly the best batsman of all time, Miller a great all-rounder (matched only by Imran, Sobers and Kallis), Warne (well Murali) and Mcgrath (Marshall, Hadlee, Ambrose, Imran). And I didnt even mention Gilchrist who is probably the best wicket keeper batsman only A Flower, L Ames and maybe Sangakara coming remotely close.

 

[adharcric]

Top 5 Aussies:

Bradman
Miller
Warne
Mcgrath
Chapell

What amazes me is that Australia has a player in each of cricket's major disciplines who could be argued as being the best!! Bradman is certainly the best batsman of all time, Miller a great all-rounder (matched only by Imran, Sobers and Kallis), Warne (well Murali) and Mcgrath (Marshall, Hadlee, Ambrose, Imran). And I didnt even mention Gilchrist who is probably the best wicket keeper batsman only A Flower, L Ames and maybe Sangakara coming remotely close.

How the hell did he end up in that list?