South Africa 1969

[Francis]

You know... I love learning about South Africa. Their team in the late 90s was one of, if not my favorite, team to watch. And really, on paper, they looked like the best team in the world... although they didn't conquer Australia. Even looking at the 1992 World Cup they had an awesome team that should've been in the final.

But today it's the 1969 team I was looking at... and wow! This leads me to my thread - people talk about the 1981/82 West Indies as being the best ever:

Colin Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Vivian Richards
Everton Mattis
*Clive Lloyd
Larry Gomes
+Derek Murray
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Colin Croft

But if we look at the 1969 South African side that killed the Aussies:

Barry Richards
Trevor Goddard
*Ali Bacher
Graeme Pollock
Eddie Barlow
Lee Irvine
Mike Procter
Peter Pollock

There were a few bowlers and even a few keepers who were dropped in that 1969, but as far as I know... these were the main stays.

It's a pretty competitive team if you ask me, when compared to the Windies. I think its obvious the only thing the West Indies have over South Africa is a superior bowling attack. Reportedly, Peter Pollock wasn't as good in 1969 as he was earlier on but was still awesome Mike Proctor sounded awesome with the ball. Those two can't be too far behind the best two West Indies. That's no excuse as four awesome quickies slaughters the South African attack.

But the batting side of things, in my opinion, beats the West Indies batting and that's no mere feat. Don Bradman himself thought Graeme Pollock was the best left handed batsmen he ever saw or at least was as good as Sobers with the bat. Barry Richards has to be up there with the best openers ever and it better than Greenidge or Haynes etc. Proctor sounded awesome and many think he was in the same league as the big four all-rounders of the 80s.

For me, it's close. I think the Windies are better... but can we all agree that South Africa crica 1969 were one of the top five best cricket teams ever?

Just awesome.

[Francis]

Sorry I really didn't expand on what I wrote:

Anybody here think that maybe they were, with Richards, Barlow, RG Pollock, Proctor amd P Pollock, the best team ever?

Anybody think they may be the second best team ever?

Top three? I know there's a few people who'd fancy the Bradman Invincibles.

[Goughy]

That SA side was full of young players with many talented players just emerging (Clive Rice, Vince van der Bijl and a slew of others). This team would only have got better and by 1975 would have been incredible with a bowling line up to compare with anything in the world and fantastic batsmen.

However, it never happened so the WI team that actually dominated for a long period of time must be rated higher because they actually did it in the flesh.

Given the opportunity that generation of SA cricketers could have produced a very special team but we will never know how good they could have been. It is often said that Tony Greig moved to England because he had more chance of making the England team than make his provincial team.

[Goughy]

It pains me to say it but Im judging without any sentimentality.

The greatest cricket team ever has been the recent Australian team. They hold virtually every record, play all over the world, had massive strength in depth and never had blips like the WI had in NZ where they lost and behaved like children when they wrongly beleived they were being hard done by. 11 special individuals with incredible records and add in the fact that apart from test cricket they have won back to back ODI WOrld Cups.

1. Recent Aussies - For doing little wrong and smashing all team records
2. Great WI Team - For domination, long term success and changing the way the game is played
3. Invincibles - Maybe the best team ever assembled but only 3 due to the fact they we not together for a long period of time and played in a period of cricket weakened by the war.
4. SA in isolation - Potential and a long line of great players. Can never be judged the best but I wish Id have seen these guys play Tests.

[aussie]

looking back in history from that 1969 series to the end of the 1980's South African cricket was very strong & produced some of the best players never to play test cricket it seems. It unfortunate they were banned because they looked to have a side that could have really challenged the great West Indies side of the 70's & 80's.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Ghougy

The greatest cricket team ever has been the recent Australian team. They hold virtually every record, play all over the world, had massive strength in depth and never had blips like the WI had in NZ where they lost and behaved like children when they wrongly beleived they were being hard done by.

The current Australian team were outplayed lost to England in the Ashes, lost and were outplayed against India in India, and drew a series in Australia against India. They've had plenty of blips.

I don't think they would beat the WI side. We know how Australia struggled against the four pronged pace attack of England...imagine if you replace those four with the WI four man attack....and replace the average English batting lineup with the very good west indies line up.

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

The current Australian team were outplayed lost to England in the Ashes, lost and were outplayed against India in India, and drew a series in Australia against India. They've had plenty of blips.

I don't think they would beat the WI side. We know how Australia struggled against the four pronged pace attack of England...imagine if you replace those four with the WI four man attack....and replace the average English batting lineup with the very good west indies line up.

Jeez, do people not read. How does me writing 'recent' get turned into 'current' in a reply. And the teams from the mid-late 90s on have had few blips. Hence the fact they have broken every record in the books.

[marc71178]

To be fair we can't really place them because of the fact they didn't play Test cricket - so we don't know quite how good they would've been.

[luckyeddie]

Originally Posted by Francis

Sorry I really didn't expand on what I wrote:

Anybody here think that maybe they were, with Richards, Barlow, RG Pollock, Proctor amd P Pollock, the best team ever?

Anybody think they may be the second best team ever?

Top three? I know there's a few people who'd fancy the Bradman Invincibles.

I'd say that the SA team of that era are probably the best ever (at that time) - the way they systematically demolished Australia was proof enough.

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Goughy

How does me writing 'recent' get turned into 'current' in a reply.

that's nothing, just have a look at your name in the quoted post - He has quoted as 'Ghougy'.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Goughy

Jeez, do people not read. How does me writing 'recent' get turned into 'current' in a reply. And the teams from the mid-late 90s on have had few blips. Hence the fact they have broken every record in the books.

Well, it was Waugh's team (not the current team) who lost and drew against India, and Ponting (current team) who lost the ashes. So I knew what you were talking about. Unless you want to give a specific time period of 15 tests prior to the India series, or something like that. "Recent" could make a lot of things, and I took it to mean Waugh's team.

Originally Posted by Sanz

That's nothing, just have a look at your name in the quoted post - He has quoted as 'Ghougy'.

Oops

[Swervy]

Everton Mattis?????

[Slifer]

Originally Posted by Francis

Sorry I really didn't expand on what I wrote:

Anybody here think that maybe they were, with Richards, Barlow, RG Pollock, Proctor amd P Pollock, the best team ever?

Anybody think they may be the second best team ever?

Top three? I know there's a few people who'd fancy the Bradman Invincibles.

I dont know which team would hve one but it must be noted that some rebel WI teams did tour RSA during the 1980s and drew and won a series there.

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_data.../WI-XI_IN_RSA/

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_data.../WI-XI_IN_RSA/

[archie mac]

Looking at it from just a cricketing view, it is one of the great shames that we never had the chance to watch this SA side play the Aussies of 1974-76 or the Windies sides of the late 70s early 80s.

I still rate the Aussie side of 1902 the greatest ever, but that might just be me having just read AA Thomson