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Thread: Will the West Indies ever rise again?

  1. #16
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by open365
    That's completely illogical.

    Define a game that matters, go on, if you mean as i think you mean, a game that the West Indies have a chance of winning, then i can think of one reason why he doesn't perform in games that matter...
    I mean games that aren't part of a dead series. I was on cricbuzz the other night with a West Indian moaning away at me about how Lara only ever makes his big scores when the West Indies have already lost the series, and it's true.

  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    ...On the same pitch that one man managed 400 (which is 95.693etc.% of the score you put ) all on his own against another powerful attack (plus Gareth Batty.)
    A powerful attack of the oh-so-wonderful Harmison, the (in those days) condition-reliant Hoggard, the purely magnificent Simon Jones (was utterly rubbish in those days) and the totally superb Flintoff (even tec admits he only became a good bowler in the summer of 2004)?
    The Lara feat might've been a fantastic one, but it sure wasn't a strong attack.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    I mean games that aren't part of a dead series. I was on cricbuzz the other night with a West Indian moaning away at me about how Lara only ever makes his big scores when the West Indies have already lost the series, and it's true.
    How about this one?
    Or this?
    Or this?
    Or this? (dropped on 15, yes, but played superbly afterwards)
    What about this-'un?
    Here?
    Maybe...?
    Dead as a doornail, this game...
    I've stopped because I've run-out of catchphrases, not Lara innings.

  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson
    The West Indies performances in the current series in New Zealand seems to confirm them at the bottom of the current established Test playing nations - excluding Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. But will they ever rise to the top again? When Australia were really struggling in the mid-eighties they put a lot of resources into sport to plan for the future and their dominance in recent years is due in no small part to forward planning. On the other hand when the Windies were dominant from the mid to late seventies to the early nineties it was due to a number of great players just happening to emerge at the same time rather than any deliberate plan. A number of young batsman and bowlers show early promise, but few go on to long term Test careers. So will the West Indies ever rise again? If they're just content to sit back and say cricket goes in cycles and one day it will be their turn, they could be in for a long wait.
    If they realise the basic cyclical nature, they realise there's no need for despair.
    But ask Liam of the misdemenours of the WICB in the last 3 or 4 years... then prepare yourself for a tirade...


  5. #20
    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    I mean games that aren't part of a dead series. I was on cricbuzz the other night with a West Indian moaning away at me about how Lara only ever makes his big scores when the West Indies have already lost the series, and it's true.
    That's because the Windies loose so much that they aren't in the series for very long.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    We can only hope.

    It should also be remembered that the Windies had some great sides in the 50s The 3 Ws and the 60s Sobers, Hall, Kanhai etc.

    So this is really the first period in WI cricket history (apart from when they first entered Test cricket) that they are at the bottom.

    I am not sure of the answers though, but maybe they could send their best young prospects to Aust and Eng for some coaching.
    You know it makes sense.

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    Cricket Web Owner James's Avatar
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    According to the WIndies radio commentator (forget his name) we're getting on RadioSport here in New Zealand, cricket is becoming a smaller and smaller sport in the Caribbean. Most kids these days prefer to get into football or basketball, and very little interest is shown in cricket by the younger generation.

    He was also saying crowds at internationals and domestic games have been poor the past couple of years, and media coverage is lacking.

    Overall, this guy seems very down-hearted on the future for WIndies cricket.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James
    According to the WIndies radio commentator (forget his name) we're getting on RadioSport here in New Zealand, cricket is becoming a smaller and smaller sport in the Caribbean. Most kids these days prefer to get into football or basketball, and very little interest is shown in cricket by the younger generation.

    He was also saying crowds at internationals and domestic games have been poor the past couple of years, and media coverage is lacking.

    Overall, this guy seems very down-hearted on the future for WIndies cricket.
    Gee that does not sound to good I imagine it would be much cheaper to play basket ball and soccer as well.

  9. #24
    Cricket Web Staff Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Let's hope that WC2007 stimulates some enthusiasm amongst the kids.
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  10. #25
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James
    According to the WIndies radio commentator (forget his name) we're getting on RadioSport here in New Zealand, cricket is becoming a smaller and smaller sport in the Caribbean. Most kids these days prefer to get into football or basketball, and very little interest is shown in cricket by the younger generation.

    He was also saying crowds at internationals and domestic games have been poor the past couple of years, and media coverage is lacking.

    Overall, this guy seems very down-hearted on the future for WIndies cricket.
    I struggled to find a cricket pitch in Jamaica, it certainly isn't what the youngsters were playing..

    When I tried getting a bus to the Sabina park test, most people didn't seem that interested, half didn't even know what was going on there.. Not the characteristics of a flourishing cricketing nation
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  11. #26
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    They may become a good team again in the future but they will never become dominant again. There are a number of factors. I'll go through some of them and in fact I would put money on them continuing to be poor for a fair few years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson
    On the other hand when the Windies were dominant from the mid to late seventies to the early nineties it was due to a number of great players just happening to emerge at the same time rather than any deliberate plan.
    Firstly the above statement is false. To acurately analyse the future you must understand the past. Whilst there were undoubtably many talented players that appeared during this period it is important to understand the factors that help shape this team and the system in which they evolved.

    • Despite possessing quality players, the WI didn't become "Great" until Clive Lloyd made the decision to dispence with a spinner. This near revolutionary act put the West Indies at a competetive advantage and put them playing a futuristic style of cricket in the 1970s when the rest of the world were left with old traditional selectoral opinions
    • The West Indies were ahead in terms of sports science. They were the 1st test team to value their fast bowlers as commodities and investments and provide the correct physiotherapy and support staff to enable them to perform at their best. The way the WI treated their quicks was ahead of their time.
    • The West Indies used English club cricket as a developmental arena and County cricket as a finishing school. This provided experience in different conditions and masses of players with experience of performing under the weight of expectation and as a hardened professional.


    These are all aspects that apart from talent contributed heavily to the success of of the team for the period in question.

    They are also factors that will never be reproduced to the same extent in the modern game. It is unlikely a captaincy masterstroke will take on the world again, the West Indies have fallen along way behind in the application of sports science (is in any surprize that the Aussies led the world durng their recent domination) and the number of West Indians in County cricket is at a low point.

    Other factors have changed since the mentioned time period. Cricket around the world has become far more professional and competetive, the current WI team must play allcomers when the all conquering WI team were never tested against what would have been the second best team in the world (SA), the intimidation factor of Lloyds genius has worn off and can never be replaced and I could go on....

    The movement to bball and soccer is not as big as often mentioned but is still a factor, facilities are somewhat of an issue.

    The simple fact is that WI led the world in preparation and professionalism and now the world has overtaken them and the lack of financial resources and a administrative head in the sand attitude will make it difficult to catch up let alone regain the top spot.

    This may be a sad fact for some to think about but:
    Rather than look if the WI can ever be great again it maybe time to recognize and give respect to the fact that they played far and away above what could be expected of a population that small and maybe the natural order has been restored.
    Last edited by Goughy; 19-03-2006 at 04:33 PM.
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  12. #27
    Cricket Web Owner James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    When I tried getting a bus to the Sabina park test, most people didn't seem that interested, half didn't even know what was going on there.. Not the characteristics of a flourishing cricketing nation
    Gosh, that's very sad indeed.

    I'm looking forward to some of our WIndies members coming along and speaking first hand on how they see the game at the moment.

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    Why would the kids pick cricket when they could be payed 50x more playing basketball or soccer? Also many of the kids parents would rather buy a soccer ball or basketball then buying an expensive cricket kit and replacing the bat every six months.

  14. #29
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quytst0rm
    Why would the kids pick cricket when they could be payed 50x more playing basketball or soccer? Also many of the kids parents would rather buy a soccer ball or basketball then buying an expensive cricket kit and replacing the bat every six months.
    You get kids making do, I remember watching a game of cricket in Zimbabwe where they were hitting a coke can with a stick.. If there is genuine passion for a game, money isn't an obstacle..

  15. #30
    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
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    James,

    Fazheer Mohammad? (or something like that).

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