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Thread: Vettori: Young spinners should expore relaxed rulings

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    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Vettori: Young spinners should expore relaxed rulings

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/s...ectID=10347894

    Cricket: Updated bowling rules almost beg to be exploited

    30.09.05
    By Richard Boock

    Daniel Vettori reckons it's only a matter of time until a New Zealand spinner starts exploiting the International Cricket Council's revised throwing law.

    Now in Melbourne preparing for the Super Series one-dayers against Australia, Vettori said he firmly believed young spinners should start exploring the more relaxed ruling, which allows bowlers to bend their arms to 15 degrees at the point of delivery without fear of being no-balled.

    The updated law was adopted this year in an attempt to diffuse the row over illegal actions, and particularly the controversy surrounding Vettori's Rest of the World team-mate, Muttiah Muralitharan.

    It effectively re-modelled the old law so that it could withstand court scrutiny in the advent of a legal challenge, but at the same time drew a line in the sand so generously that it almost begged to be exploited.

    Vettori says he supports the stance of the New Zealand Cricket Academy, which encourages young spin bowlers with unusual actions to explore their capabilities, rather than conform to past principles.

    "I can't see why a young guy coming through the academy who's showing that sort of ability shouldn't be encouraged to use it for every advantage he can.

    "I can't see it becoming a mass development within New Zealand because it's rare enough to find someone who's spinning it with their wrist, let along someone who can also handle a doosra.

    "But I think it will happen; it's only a matter of time."

    It wasn't so long ago that accredited coaches were trying to iron out any kinks in a bowler's action, and bowlers such as Vettori and England's Ashley Giles were taking pride in a perpendicular arm at the point of delivery.

    But the increasing numbers of finger-spinners employing a wrong-'un or 'doosra' (something that Vettori maintains is impossible to 'bowl') has forced the ICC's hand and has effectively led to the action being decriminalised.

    "There's been a bit of a stigma about it because it's never been the done thing, but there's bowlers popping up all over the world doing it now, and the 15-degree law will only encourage more to try.

    "I just think that if it's within the laws and guidelines set down, then you're almost obliged to tap into it, if only to keep pace with the rest of the world," said Vettori.
    He said he could have been bitter about the decision to cater for those with more dubious actions than his, particularly after keeping within the spirit of the throwing law throughout his career, and working within its limitations.

    But he said there was at least some closure with the ICC's revised definition.

    "The initial frustration with the system was the randomness of the whole thing, and how some players seemed to be able to continue bowling and others were pulled up."

    In any case, he said talking about the 'doosra' was one thing; actually executing the delivery and landing it with any degree of accuracy was something completely different, and probably the most difficult variation known at the bowling crease.

    "I've practiced it and can get it out occasionally but I find it comes back and influences everything else I do; it sort of has a domino effect on my action and rhythm and becomes counter-productive.

    "So, having gone through the entire phase of working at it and practicing until I can bowl it, I've decided to shelve it and concentrate on what I know I can do well."

    Academy coach Dayle Hadlee said yesterday that NZC had performed something of an about-face on the question of borderline actions, in light of the 15-degree buffer now allowed.

    Hadlee said instead of trying to correct 'unconventional' actions, the academy was instead urging youngsters to explore their capabilities. "We'd see nothing wrong with one of our bowlers employing a doosra, as long as his action was within the legal framework. In fact, we'd encourage it."

    Best-known practitioners

    Saqlain Mushtaq (Pakistan)

    Muttiah Muralitharan (Sri Lanka)

    Harbhajan Singh (India)

    Shoaib Malik (Pakistan)

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    This was like half a year ago.
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    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00
    This was like half a year ago.
    I know, as the date says...I thought it was interesting as I've read a lot about the argument today and that and other articles give a deep feeling of conspiracy. As many other articles have said, and interviewers have been proclaiming that it's become almost impossible to voice concern without fear of being reprimanded. In every interview, Murali alludes to people being jealous? His fans/affiliates concluding the matter is racial and yet it seems to dawn on none of them that there is geniune concern. It isn't racial, and that it's becoming a sort of Mcarthy Era in cricket where people voicing concern can be reprimanded so fast? Just like the end of Emerson's career and the shared opinion a lot of cricketers have with him. It seems to be able say something you have to be prepared to sacrifice yourself.

    On other articles there is a huge overtone of worry in that a lot of interviews after Australia had visited the sub-continent the players were all worried looking at cricketing practises over the country and seeing how many of these actions were being copied. Yet, it seems that the dollar/popularity of cricket and Murali in the sub-continent is hushing up outcry. I felt a weird tone in this article...sorry if I posted it late.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    So is this thread going to turn out to be a substitute for Murali v Warne?
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    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    So is this thread going to turn out to be a substitute for Murali v Warne?
    Well, no, not intended. I'm not disputing their records/who's better just this aspect of the controversy. The very heavy-handed approach to people voicing concern. Is it justified...isn't it? Let's discuss...

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    I say, let's see some bowlers give it a try. I think they'll find it a little harder than they think and whilst they may get away with it for a while, eventually they'll be nabbed. Even Botha, who's dodginess is relatively subtle, has been picked-up.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    I say, let's see some bowlers give it a try. I think they'll find it a little harder than they think and whilst they may get away with it for a while, eventually they'll be nabbed. Even Botha, who's dodginess is relatively subtle, has been picked-up.
    It's not as if anyone's doosra is hard to pick.

  8. #8
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaZoH0lic
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/s...ectID=10347894

    Cricket: Updated bowling rules almost beg to be exploited

    30.09.05
    By Richard Boock

    Daniel Vettori reckons it's only a matter of time until a New Zealand spinner starts exploiting the International Cricket Council's revised throwing law.

    Now in Melbourne preparing for the Super Series one-dayers against Australia, Vettori said he firmly believed young spinners should start exploring the more relaxed ruling, which allows bowlers to bend their arms to 15 degrees at the point of delivery without fear of being no-balled.

    The updated law was adopted this year in an attempt to diffuse the row over illegal actions, and particularly the controversy surrounding Vettori's Rest of the World team-mate, Muttiah Muralitharan.

    It effectively re-modelled the old law so that it could withstand court scrutiny in the advent of a legal challenge, but at the same time drew a line in the sand so generously that it almost begged to be exploited.

    Vettori says he supports the stance of the New Zealand Cricket Academy, which encourages young spin bowlers with unusual actions to explore their capabilities, rather than conform to past principles.

    "I can't see why a young guy coming through the academy who's showing that sort of ability shouldn't be encouraged to use it for every advantage he can.

    "I can't see it becoming a mass development within New Zealand because it's rare enough to find someone who's spinning it with their wrist, let along someone who can also handle a doosra.

    "But I think it will happen; it's only a matter of time."

    It wasn't so long ago that accredited coaches were trying to iron out any kinks in a bowler's action, and bowlers such as Vettori and England's Ashley Giles were taking pride in a perpendicular arm at the point of delivery.

    But the increasing numbers of finger-spinners employing a wrong-'un or 'doosra' (something that Vettori maintains is impossible to 'bowl') has forced the ICC's hand and has effectively led to the action being decriminalised.

    "There's been a bit of a stigma about it because it's never been the done thing, but there's bowlers popping up all over the world doing it now, and the 15-degree law will only encourage more to try.

    "I just think that if it's within the laws and guidelines set down, then you're almost obliged to tap into it, if only to keep pace with the rest of the world," said Vettori.
    He said he could have been bitter about the decision to cater for those with more dubious actions than his, particularly after keeping within the spirit of the throwing law throughout his career, and working within its limitations.

    But he said there was at least some closure with the ICC's revised definition.

    "The initial frustration with the system was the randomness of the whole thing, and how some players seemed to be able to continue bowling and others were pulled up."

    In any case, he said talking about the 'doosra' was one thing; actually executing the delivery and landing it with any degree of accuracy was something completely different, and probably the most difficult variation known at the bowling crease.

    "I've practiced it and can get it out occasionally but I find it comes back and influences everything else I do; it sort of has a domino effect on my action and rhythm and becomes counter-productive.

    "So, having gone through the entire phase of working at it and practicing until I can bowl it, I've decided to shelve it and concentrate on what I know I can do well."

    Academy coach Dayle Hadlee said yesterday that NZC had performed something of an about-face on the question of borderline actions, in light of the 15-degree buffer now allowed.

    Hadlee said instead of trying to correct 'unconventional' actions, the academy was instead urging youngsters to explore their capabilities. "We'd see nothing wrong with one of our bowlers employing a doosra, as long as his action was within the legal framework. In fact, we'd encourage it."

    Best-known practitioners

    Saqlain Mushtaq (Pakistan)

    Muttiah Muralitharan (Sri Lanka)

    Harbhajan Singh (India)

    Shoaib Malik (Pakistan)
    Murali is nothing like Saqlain, Harbhajan and Malik.
    Anyone comparing Murali to a fingerspinner doesn't really know what they're talking about.
    As I've said a few times - the new rulings are, frankly, ridiculous. The fact that they're better than the old ones is no blessing - the old ones were based on false ideals.
    With the discovery that the old ideals were false, cricket was faced with a choice: fair rules that were un-policeable or unfair rules that were policeable.
    The only way to get the thing both fair and policeable would be to totally change the way bowling is done - I've advocated that before, and I just can't see it being done. Too radical - and there may be safety issues.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaZoH0lic
    As many other articles have said, and interviewers have been proclaiming that it's become almost impossible to voice concern without fear of being reprimanded.
    And that's the way it has to be - David Frith may lament the loss of freedom-of-speech, but if you let people go around branding such-and-such a chucker, there's nowhere you can draw a line.
    You simply have to say that calling anyone a chucker - even Ruchira Perera at Lord's in 2002 - is not acceptible.
    Otherwise you're letting yourself in for a lot of double-standards accusations.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    I say, let's see some bowlers give it a try. I think they'll find it a little harder than they think and whilst they may get away with it for a while, eventually they'll be nabbed. Even Botha, who's dodginess is relatively subtle, has been picked-up.
    You think so?
    I reckon Botha's action's illegality is pretty blatant.

  11. #11
    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
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    It's an intrsting idea, but i don't think many people realise just how hard it is to bowl like Murali, next time your out at nets or whatever, try it, for 15 minutes last night we had 6 bowlers trying to bowl like Murali, but no one could do it, including a Pakistani bowler who practices all the time.

    We weren't even close to bowling like him,i think about one try hit the mat.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    People being unable to bowl like Murali has nothing to do with elbow-flexation.
    Murali is unique because of his wrist, not his elbow.
    And practice makes a small difference, too... Murali didn't just try his method, fail once or twice, and give-up.

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    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Murali is a biological freak and shouldn't really be used as a guide for anything, much like Chandrasekhar or Underwood.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    You think so?
    I reckon Botha's action's illegality is pretty blatant.
    Agreed its not even close.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there will be edits

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    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Murali is nothing like Saqlain, Harbhajan and Malik.
    Anyone comparing Murali to a fingerspinner doesn't really know what they're talking about.
    As I've said a few times - the new rulings are, frankly, ridiculous. The fact that they're better than the old ones is no blessing - the old ones were based on false ideals.
    With the discovery that the old ideals were false, cricket was faced with a choice: fair rules that were un-policeable or unfair rules that were policeable.
    The only way to get the thing both fair and policeable would be to totally change the way bowling is done - I've advocated that before, and I just can't see it being done. Too radical - and there may be safety issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    And that's the way it has to be - David Frith may lament the loss of freedom-of-speech, but if you let people go around branding such-and-such a chucker, there's nowhere you can draw a line.
    You simply have to say that calling anyone a chucker - even Ruchira Perera at Lord's in 2002 - is not acceptible.
    Otherwise you're letting yourself in for a lot of double-standards accusations.

    Well here is where I draw an unfair contradiction. Ok, so the laws aren't fair but policable as you've said...but herein lies the problem it ISN'T fair. There is no equity and it is a further injustice not to let those that are feeling cheated to voice themselves. EVEN more so when those such persons lose or risk losing their positions for being vocal.

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