• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

How on Earth...

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well from what Iv'e read from West Indian accounts, Healy maintained that he had broken the stumps with the ball.
Why do you think the WEst Indians have always hated Healy since that incident ?
Not what I'd read. And even then, the umpires gave him out, not Healy. If they were unsighted and had no choice but to trust his opinion (whatever it was), there should have been enough doubt to give him not out. If they weren't unsighted, why did they give him out when it was pretty clear he wasn't?

As for Healy's relationship with the WI, there were plenty more incidents before that which solidified their hatred of him. His run-in with Dessie in 1991 where Dessie had his bat pointed at Healy, for example.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
Top_Cat said:
Not what I'd read. And even then, the umpires gave him out, not Healy. If they were unsighted and had no choice but to trust his opinion (whatever it was), there should have been enough doubt to give him not out. If they weren't unsighted, why did they give him out when it was pretty clear he wasn't?

As for Healy's relationship with the WI, there were plenty more incidents before that which solidified their hatred of him. His run-in with Dessie in 1991 where Dessie had his bat pointed at Healy, for example.
What irked the West Indians was the fact that the replays showed it to be glove hitting stumps first and yet Healy claimed to the contrary.

It's a well known fact though that it was that incident which really magnified the contempt the
West Indians had for him. I rrecall Healy visiting the West Indian dressing room and being confronted with one of West Indians who in no uncertain terms told him that he was a cheat among other things.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
The Australians were on top for the first two test matches. Windies batting collapsed in three innings following the 371 in their first innings of the series. Even this innings would have been a miserable one (and they would have lost this test) but for Arthurton's \lone hand of 155 not out.

Therafter Windies scored
- 133 for 8 (barely managing to draw the test)
- 233 and
- 219

Lara managed just 114 runs in the four innings.

The turning point for Windies came with Lara's 277 in the second test. This high scoring draw may have seemed a meaningless game but it did a tremedous amount for the Windies under Richardson. They got back the confidence that seemed to have vanished.

Then Ambrose bowled some of his best and most hostile spells with the highly gifted Bishop for company. With every other innings, Ambrose appeared more and more unplayable and the demoralisation of Border's men was complete by the end of the series.

In these four innings Australia managed 213, 184, 119 and 178.

Ambrose returned 6 for 74, 4 for 46, 7 for 25 and 2 for 54 (Bishop 6-40). Between the two of them they took 30 of the 40 Aussie wickets that fell.

Ambrose and Bishop won the last two test matches for them but I felt that but for Lara's 277 in the 3rd game, Windies would not have shown the gumption they did in those two games.
 

archie mac

International Coach
Richard said:
What about this one?
Has a series victory so easy ever been thrown away?
And what about this one?
It wasn't quite so bad as the above, but it came pretty close.
I have read a lot about both of those series, as you can imagine Aust. writers are quite happy to remember those matches.

The Sri Lankan one was the day Shane Warne became a match winner, with Border backing him. The pitch was also taking spin and Aust thought they were in with a chance after batting well in the 2nd innings.

The 1961 match was a great effort by the Aussies with Benaud the hero on the last day bowling with a very sore shoulder he went around the wicket and bowled into the rough. Later the Aussies claimed it was Dexter's fault England lost. The reason being they believed England would have settled for a draw except the great batting by Dexter forced them to go for the win.

Another great escape for the Aussies was the 3rd Test V Sth Afr 1949/50
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Swervy said:
there is a difference between throwing a game away and maybe being outdone by good bowling !!!!! anyway I see what you mean now
The chances of someone bowling well enough to take that without poor batting aplenty are exceedingly slim.
Of course, I've heard or seen no reports of the matter.
How about the first test here....really Australia should have had this series won by 2-0, but for an amazing bit of bowling by Sarfraz in the first test
Which one? I don't know which series you're talking about without a link.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Top_Cat said:
I watched it live (I was there) and have watched the various replays many times; there's no way you can be sure whether he gloved it or not. About the best you can say about the replays were that they were inconclusive. As I said, though, it shouldn't have even gotten as far int he match as it did because Craig McDermott was out LBW at least twice beforehand.
Quite astoundingly similar to Edgbaston 2005.
Kasprowicz absolutely plumb lbw 2nd ball, given not-out, made the match much closer than it should've been, then given out when no-one could really be certain whether he was out or not...
Absolutely extraordinary... :eek:
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Top_Cat said:
As for the WI vs Aus 1992/93 series, how did Australia fail to win? It's a painful one to remember but I do remember that the WI came to Australia slightly under-done and with a young team batting-wise (Phil Simmons, Brian Lara, Keith Arthurton were all newbies). Arthurton's 157 in the first Test was all-class and when the Aussie replied with over 300, I thought they were in with a chance. Then Craig McDermott ripped through them in the second dig and it looked to be all over, especially when Merv strangled Ritchie down the leg-side. But I do remember Ian Bishop dug in really well. He survived some awfully close LBW's, though.

The second Test, Mark Waugh and AB's partnership did the job for the Aussies, really. The WI were on the back-foot from that point onwards. This Test and previous one showed how valuable Merv was to the team too; I remember he wasn't taking huge bags of wickets but managed to knock over the top-3 (especially Dessie) regularly and put them on the back foot a few times. Notwithstanding Phil Simmons' absolutely brilliant knock, Warnie wrapped it up.

Now, here's where I reckon it went wrong for the Aussies; the WI piled on a decent score in Sydney on the back of Brian's 277 (incredible knock; most of his boundaries were along the carpet all the way) and momentum swung a bit. Next thing, WI on the back of Curtly won the ODI series and it looked as if he'd finally gotten fed-up with maybe being in the first WI side to lose a series in many years.

Then Adelaide rolled around and THE closest Test I've seen (it had a weird tension all the way through that even the close one's in Ashes 2005 didn't quite have). The scorecards will tell you that it was close all the way through but as soon as Ambi took 6-fer in Australia's first-dig, they must have had flash-backs to the WI of old because it was seriously nasty bowling. He'd finally lost his temper, I guess. As you can see, only three guys passed 50 for the match and that tells you how tight the game was, punctuated by when Boonie had to retired hurt in the first-innings from an Ambi bumper which kept lower than he thought and slammed into his arm. Not to mention Justin Langer's 4th ball bumper from Bishop which belted him in the helmet. The bowling was really nasty; reminiscent of the previous series in the Carribean although that had it through the whole series. Tim May taking 5/9 was pretty special I must admit and that kept the Aussies in with a shout.

Unfortunately, Ambi hit his straps again and tore through the top-order. The bowling was so good, even AB was out fending a ball to short-leg. Langer hung around but when Tim May came out, I'm sure he was thinking it might be over. Incidentally, I've never seen such a tough first Test for anyone as Langer got. He got hit so many times, Inside Edge did a two page article showing on a picture of him where he'd been hit. I reckon it was at least 40 times on his helmet, shoulders, chest, torso and legs. Langer eventually went caught-behind trying to hook one yet somehow Billy and Tim May (on his 30th birthday if I recall correctly; was definitely his birthday, though) kept the Aussies in it. The WI came so close to outs on so many occasions it was getting funny. Catches just falling short, etc. they were all there.

But yeah then it came down to 2 to win and McDermott got a rough decision by Darrel Hair caught behind where he turned his back on a bumper and the ball apparently just clipped his gloves on the way through. On viewing the replay many times, it's hard to tell which makes me question the rationale Hair had for giving it. Still, the reality is that the WI had a bunch of LBW shouts against May and McDermott turned down in that last hour, a couple of which looked stone dead. The WI probably deserved to win that match a little more. Still, the greatest Test I've ever seen.

And then there's Perth and one word comes immediately to mind; Ambrose. He took 7-25 in the first dig but all 7 came from his second spell of 7-1 which was just un-freakin' believeable. Quick, nasty and accurate, a tough combination to counter. To this day I don't know how he got the ball to Mark Waugh to bounce so much. It was painful to watch this innings. The WI batted pretty well in their innings (despite Joe Angel decking Dessie) then Bishop blew the Aussies away in their second dig.

So yeah, what lost the Aussies the series was an inability to take opportunities presented to them and that the WI, after a slow start, lifted their game by tightening it up and getting cheesed-off.
Ambrose's piece-de-resistence, then, this series...
The start of Langer's career in more ways than one... has any batsman ever been hit so much in a Test-career? I'll be amazed if so. How on Earth anyone can possibly say Harmison hitting him 2nd ball meant anything whatsoever is beyond me.
Fascinating account, indeed. :)
 

Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
The chances of someone bowling well enough to take that without poor batting aplenty are exceedingly slim.
Of course, I've heard or seen no reports of the matter.

Which one? I don't know which series you're talking about without a link.
did i not put a link in there...1978/79 Pak in Australia
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
It was during the Packer schism, of course...
Amazing that even then, Australia's side still included Border, Yallop, Hughes, Hogg and two pretty decent bowlers in Hurst and Sleep.
 

The Argonaut

State Vice-Captain
Top_Cat said:
But yeah then it came down to 2 to win and McDermott got a rough decision by Darrel Hair caught behind where he turned his back on a bumper and the ball apparently just clipped his gloves on the way through. On viewing the replay many times, it's hard to tell which makes me question the rationale Hair had for giving it. Still, the reality is that the WI had a bunch of LBW shouts against May and McDermott turned down in that last hour, a couple of which looked stone dead. The WI probably deserved to win that match a little more. Still, the greatest Test I've ever seen.
My recollection is that the ball brushed the grill of McDermott's helmet thus creating the noise and deflection.

The loss of this match took the wind out of the Aussie's sails and Ambrose cashed in with some hostile bowling on a traditional WACA pitch.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Top_Cat said:
No. You obviously didn't see it live so I don't think you're really in a position to comment. I know *I* didn't see it either because it wasn't televised here. What snippets I've seen over the years have been of poor quality so it's possible that it wasn't fully televised in SL either.

As for the WI vs Aus 1992/93 series, how did Australia fail to win? It's a painful one to remember but I do remember that the WI came to Australia slightly under-done and with a young team batting-wise (Phil Simmons, Brian Lara, Keith Arthurton were all newbies). Arthurton's 157 in the first Test was all-class and when the Aussie replied with over 300, I thought they were in with a chance. Then Craig McDermott ripped through them in the second dig and it looked to be all over, especially when Merv strangled Ritchie down the leg-side. But I do remember Ian Bishop dug in really well. He survived some awfully close LBW's, though.

The second Test, Mark Waugh and AB's partnership did the job for the Aussies, really. The WI were on the back-foot from that point onwards. This Test and previous one showed how valuable Merv was to the team too; I remember he wasn't taking huge bags of wickets but managed to knock over the top-3 (especially Dessie) regularly and put them on the back foot a few times. Notwithstanding Phil Simmons' absolutely brilliant knock, Warnie wrapped it up.

Now, here's where I reckon it went wrong for the Aussies; the WI piled on a decent score in Sydney on the back of Brian's 277 (incredible knock; most of his boundaries were along the carpet all the way) and momentum swung a bit. Next thing, WI on the back of Curtly won the ODI series and it looked as if he'd finally gotten fed-up with maybe being in the first WI side to lose a series in many years.

Then Adelaide rolled around and THE closest Test I've seen (it had a weird tension all the way through that even the close one's in Ashes 2005 didn't quite have). The scorecards will tell you that it was close all the way through but as soon as Ambi took 6-fer in Australia's first-dig, they must have had flash-backs to the WI of old because it was seriously nasty bowling. He'd finally lost his temper, I guess. As you can see, only three guys passed 50 for the match and that tells you how tight the game was, punctuated by when Boonie had to retired hurt in the first-innings from an Ambi bumper which kept lower than he thought and slammed into his arm. Not to mention Justin Langer's 4th ball bumper from Bishop which belted him in the helmet. The bowling was really nasty; reminiscent of the previous series in the Carribean although that had it through the whole series. Tim May taking 5/9 was pretty special I must admit and that kept the Aussies in with a shout.

Unfortunately, Ambi hit his straps again and tore through the top-order. The bowling was so good, even AB was out fending a ball to short-leg. Langer hung around but when Tim May came out, I'm sure he was thinking it might be over. Incidentally, I've never seen such a tough first Test for anyone as Langer got. He got hit so many times, Inside Edge did a two page article showing on a picture of him where he'd been hit. I reckon it was at least 40 times on his helmet, shoulders, chest, torso and legs. Langer eventually went caught-behind trying to hook one yet somehow Billy and Tim May (on his 30th birthday if I recall correctly; was definitely his birthday, though) kept the Aussies in it. The WI came so close to outs on so many occasions it was getting funny. Catches just falling short, etc. they were all there.

But yeah then it came down to 2 to win and McDermott got a rough decision by Darrel Hair caught behind where he turned his back on a bumper and the ball apparently just clipped his gloves on the way through. On viewing the replay many times, it's hard to tell which makes me question the rationale Hair had for giving it. Still, the reality is that the WI had a bunch of LBW shouts against May and McDermott turned down in that last hour, a couple of which looked stone dead. The WI probably deserved to win that match a little more. Still, the greatest Test I've ever seen.

And then there's Perth and one word comes immediately to mind; Ambrose. He took 7-25 in the first dig but all 7 came from his second spell of 7-1 which was just un-freakin' believeable. Quick, nasty and accurate, a tough combination to counter. To this day I don't know how he got the ball to Mark Waugh to bounce so much. It was painful to watch this innings. The WI batted pretty well in their innings (despite Joe Angel decking Dessie) then Bishop blew the Aussies away in their second dig.

So yeah, what lost the Aussies the series was an inability to take opportunities presented to them and that the WI, after a slow start, lifted their game by tightening it up and getting cheesed-off.
I believe it was during this 7 for 1 that Deano famously asked Ambrose to remove his white wrist band because it was obstructing his view of the ball or something. I think Ambrose took it off and put it on the other arm and then took it off and swung it around everytime he got a wicket, which means 7 times within 1 run, I guess. ;) :)
 

C_C

International Captain
I believe it was during this 7 for 1 that Deano famously asked Ambrose to remove his white wrist band because it was obstructing his view of the ball or something. I think Ambrose took it off and put it on the other arm and then took it off and swung it around everytime he got a wicket, which means 7 times within 1 run, I guess.
I could be wrong, but i am pretty sure that the armbands event was in an ODI where Ambrose took 5-30 or something.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C_C said:
I could be wrong, but i am pretty sure that the armbands event was in an ODI where Ambrose took 5-30 or something.
Not sure if he took 5 - 30 but it was definitely an ODI not a test.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I believe it was during this 7 for 1 that Deano famously asked Ambrose to remove his white wrist band because it was obstructing his view of the ball or something. I think Ambrose took it off and put it on the other arm and then took it off and swung it around everytime he got a wicket, which means 7 times within 1 run, I guess.
Nope, happened in a ODI because the white wrist-band was distracting him facing up to the white ball. And C_C is right; Ambi took a 5-fer. I mean, why would Deano ask Curtly to take off a white wrist-band for a red ball? :)

Here's the match in question;

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1992-93/OD_TOURNEYS/WSC/WI_AUS_WSC_ODI-FINAL1_16JAN1993.html
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
thanks for correcting me, guys... But still is a great story. I loved the look on Deano's face when he was walking off in that game.... :D


Edit: It was the same tour though, so you can understand how I got it mixed up. :)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I simply can't believe anyone, even Dean Jones, could be crazy enough to make that request. It was never going to do anything other than cause Ambrose to bowl better. I mean, had he really never come-across bowlers wearing sweatbands in a white-ball game?
Geoffrey Boycott said the same thing about Michael Brearley's refusal to let Lillee use the aluminium-bat in 1979\80.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Interestingly - and slightly related, the ICC are currently cracking down on white sweatbands on bowlers arms, as well as those white "skins" being worn underneath OD shirts - now it has to be either flesh colour, or the colour of your uniform.
Richard said:
I simply can't believe anyone, even Dean Jones, could be crazy enough to make that request.
I think Dean Jones was too busy thinking about how he would be the centre of attention if he did ask for them to be removed, to actually consider the consequences.
 

Top