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What's this obsession with turn?

cricketboy29

International Regular
I'd have to say turn helps, but dont you think if it is not coupled with flight and direction, you might as well not turn it at all?. I mean look...suppose you have no flight, no direction, and it turns, wham thats gone for four into the midwicket fence. With no turn, flight and direction, you can atleast fool the batsman in the air cant you?
 

Kweek

Cricketer Of The Year
oke im a spinner and im lucky to get 5 inches.
all i aim for is 2 inches of turn and accuracy, and ofcourse variation now and then.
ofcourse its fun to see a batsman suffer when you turn the ball. but sometimes its just to easy to pick and just backfoot and wham.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Turn obviously does matter and is a valuable asset, you just don't have to turn it that much. Flight and varying your lengths and lines to trap batsman are clearly the keys. I'm pretty sure Kumble was quoted after one of the Ind vs. SL tests in which he bowled India to victory as saying "You only need to spin the ball 2-3 inches", as Eddie said.
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
Bishan Bedi said:
Break is off the pitch, spin is through the air
Bishan Bedi said:
My favourite dismissal is stumped, it shows you have beaten the batsman both in the air and off the pitch
I agree on both parts, as a leggie. But on the killer Asian tracks (Mumbai 2004) who were the spinners doing the damage? The raw spinners of the ball, Clarke and Kartik (AFAIK Harbhajan got wickets as well) were the ones who did the damage, while the more 'passive' spinners got less. However the true test of the spinner is on a true pitch, where a combination of flight, guile and a little ripped turn will get you the most wickets. Warne is the stand-out bowler - if we regard Murali as an exemption - on placid tracks around the world, combining all the elements of a spinner. Kumble is a bit different, his bounce tends to be his greatest asset, so you can't really regard him as an example. MacGill is a big spinner of the ball who has often failed overseas - not enough flight, whereas Bedi and Prasanna were extremely successful overseas as they flighted the ball.

In short: On an Asian crumbler - big spin does the trick, especially sharp turn; On a true track in Asia or outside: a bit more thought necessary to become a 'great' bowler.
 

open365

International Vice-Captain
Autobahn said:
Yeah i'm not trying to say giles or other small turners are better than big turners but that raw turn is nothing without variation, flight control and accuracy and people keep seeming to forget about that there have been some good spinners which haven't relied too much on turn.
But that's obvious,i think everyone on this site understands that turn is not the be all and end all for spinners.just as pace isn't the highest asset for paxce bowlers.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
open365 said:
MacGill averages a heck of a lot better,but he still bowls gimme balls a lot of the time.

It's not hard to spot the difference.
Yes, one has always benefitted from being in a world class attack where batsmen sense the weak link and attack him, thus giving up more chances of a wicket.
 

The Argonaut

State Vice-Captain
I think that is why MacGill seems to get more wickets than Warne when they play together. The batsmen try and surviv Warne and therefore go after MacGill more. That said, he is still a very good bowler. I would pick him any day ahead of the likes of Giles or any other finger spinner for that matter.

Big turn has its place but I agree that a degree of accuracy is required. Movement in the air is the other key. If you can get it to drop so that the batsman isn't quite there means there is a greater chance of getting the edge or just bowling someone. Even though Warne is getting plenty of wickets now, I think he bowled better 5-7 years ago when he got more dip into the batsman and more variety with his deadly flipper.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Matteh said:
apparently it was a given for a leg spinner to have one loose ball an over before Warne appeared on the scene...
Even if that is true - the fact is test cricket has changed a lot from before. Batsmen are much more attacking and loose balls get punished more than ever before.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Matteh said:
People are slating MacGill for bowling one loose one an over...

If you read the cricinfo biography for him...apparently it was a given for a leg spinner to have one loose ball an over before Warne appeared on the scene...and how do you attempt to equal the leading wicket taker of all time?
Yeah I've read that too, but MacGill bowls more loose deliveries than Kumble and Kaneria as well. Comparing him to Warne is sometimes a bit harsh, but I do think his loose deliveries is a fault in his bowling, rather than it just being normal for a leggy to do it.
 

Robertinho

Cricketer Of The Year
Tom Halsey said:
My view of it is that you're either born with the ability to turn the ball or you're not. Flight, variation and accuracy, to some extent at least, can be taught. Therefore if you can turn it square you show talent, but ultimately at Test level it isn't much use without accuracy, variation, control of flight and so on.
..um, then doesn't that mean turn is most important? If you can't teach turn, but you can teach flight, variation and accuracy, then someone who has turn can be taught all the other things and be made into a good bowler.
 

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