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What is a meaningless game ?
- Thread starter SJS
- Start date
C_C
International Captain
social said:
Yes but individual performances should be evaluated by its own accord and not what the match outcome is/was. Several bowlers have been part of a losing side due to pathetic batting and vice versa. It is not the fault of players like Lara, Hadlee etc. that the rest of their team was poor. And it certainly doesnt take away from their performances simply because their teammates were inept.
In the case of certain record performances, the fact that his team did not ultimately achieve a victory had little or nothing to do with the ineptness or otherwise of his team-mates.C_C said:
In most examples, it was a result of conditions being so overwhelmingly in favour of one discipline.
Take Lara's 400 no for example.
Great for him - undoubtedly
Memorable - ditto
Inspiring to his countrymen - ditto
Requiring great skill and concentration - ditto
Has he played other innings that were better for his team - certainly
His best innings - not by a long way
Langeveldt
Soutie
Like a declaration, opposing captains should be able to agree when no result is possible and call the game off, hopefull they would be unlikely to do that if any major records were about to be broken..
Deja moo
International Captain
Declaring to call a match off is a poor idea IMO. Manjrekar pointed out how many spectators go through the trouble of making a journey to another country just to watch the cricket. You cannot snub them by refusing to play on. I'm sure there were many Indians in the crowd today who'd rather have watched India bat on, even if a result seemed impossible, than see the game being called off.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
YES.Deja moo said:
Just imagine if a whole days play was possible today or even fiour hours and Sehwag made a serious effort to blast his way to 400 before the day ended, it would have been a great drama within an otherwise dead game.
This what the beauty of this game is. There are individual feats within the team goal. These individual feats are remembered at least as much if not more in some cases than the teams achievements. One cant decry them.
Some of these feats will be in winning causes and others in losing causes (Gavaskar's 96 in his last innings) and still others in drawn games. I dont think Gavaskars feat of showing his great technique on a terrible wicket against spinners turning the ball square becomes any the lesser depending upon the result of the match.
Even if no result was possible in a match, it would have been an absolute feast for anyone to have watched that innings.
In fact, thats why I was disappointed with Inzy not trying to unsettle Sehwag with bouncers from Shoaib. It would have enlivened this dead match if there was a battle within the larger war as it were.
Thats all I have to say.
PS : This is not a case in favour of dead wickets, which I despise and for me great bowling is what makes for great cricket, but just to state that individual performances and feats can be a great source of entertainment even in dead or one sided matches. I love to watch Tatenda Taibu fight a lone battle for his miserable Zimbabwe side. I switch of the Telly once he gets out though
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I have no argument with that at all.Deja moo said:
As far as I'm concerned, if the captains wish to call the game off with more than half an hour of the final day's play to go, they should also forego their match fees.
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
But in modern times, it's hardly likely all the players would forego their match fee for an extra few hours in the field.Deja moo said:
Xuhaib
International Coach
Titan cup was good because it had one team that was dominant and never looked like loosing in the round matches, then were 2 teams who were at a similar level and they had a dog fight to reach the final.
The thing that made it special was that in the final the underdog (which also happened to be the home team) defeated the overwhelming favourite. Though i doubt you would have looked at it differently then any other tri-series if India would have lost the final.
Meaningless is when there is no chance of a result!SJS said:As I write this, India are 276 runs behind Pakistan with 10 1st innings wickets in hand. Theoretically there can still be a result in the match but that aside this match has no interest from a result perspective. Yet there are other things. To enumerate what comes immidiately to mind
1. Dravid and Sehwag 11 away from the wworlds highest opening partnership
2. Sehwag could get another triple century and join Bradman and Lara.
3. These two could score another 175 runs and have the highest partnership for any wicket ever.
4. Sehwag has an outside chance to go for Lara'a 400
5. India could score 600 for none or one or some such score and really grind Pakistan's confidence into the dust.
Should the umpires call it off because it has no possibilities of a result ?
Should this become a standard to be followed for future games (Remember Sri Lanka batting almost till the end of the last day in their first innings against India and scoring nearly a thousand runs) ?
Who should decide enough is enough and individual records dont matter once the match is "meaningless"?
What is meaningless ??
cricket is about one team trying to beat another and if personal records should matter in any way (and I personally couldnt care less as to whether a dead pitch means some record is broken) then these records should be set within a real game.
It isnt possible to stop the match before well into the last day, realistically, as an awful lot can happen on a last day. who knows, had the opponent been Bangladesh or Zim, perhaps a result would have been at least a possibility.
It would be too difficult to find an objective reason as to when hopeless matches should be stopped and its far more important trying to get the pitches the right.
As for all this PAK v IND is the greatest thing ever, far bigger than the ashes etc., I have no problem with that at all even as a huge fan of the ashes.
I know cricket is entering a new phase where India will completly dominate the financial side of things and I welcome that as it may well raise the profile considerably in the rest of the world.
However for Pak v Ind to get this recognition they need to put on a show.
They need to fill the venues.
They need to get far better pitches.
They need proper scheduling. ( 5 tests /2 years)
(this is obviously all connected, so they should just get to work.
Then I think anyone will welcome it as the biggest series there is.
Its no use ignoring the problems
I know cricket is entering a new phase where India will completly dominate the financial side of things and I welcome that as it may well raise the profile considerably in the rest of the world.
However for Pak v Ind to get this recognition they need to put on a show.
They need to fill the venues.
They need to get far better pitches.
They need proper scheduling. ( 5 tests /2 years)
(this is obviously all connected, so they should just get to work.
Then I think anyone will welcome it as the biggest series there is.
Its no use ignoring the problems
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Over to you then - what should be the penalty for a captain failing to fulfil his obligations to those students of the game who wish to wrest every last drop out of a dead game?Deja moo said:
I can only think of a few without resorting to extreme measures:
1. Deprive them of their match fee
2. Deprive them of their dinner
3. Deprive them of their liberty
4. Deprive them of their trousers and make them run the gauntlet of wet towels
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Sorry but I totally disagree with you there.SJS said:
YES.
Just imagine if a whole days play was possible today or even fiour hours and Sehwag made a serious effort to blast his way to 400 before the day ended, it would have been a great drama within an otherwise dead game.
This what the beauty of this game is. There are individual feats within the team goal. These individual feats are remembered at least as much if not more in some cases than the teams achievements. One cant decry them.
.....
Wins are important and not records. There is an obsession with records. I do not see the big deal. I can understand a young test team like Bangladesh savouring the first test century of a player but it doesn't matter generally as far as I am concerned.
I will remember players for more for trying to win matches and matches they helped their team win than for statistical records they might have achieved.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
You play an exhibition one dayer or two in the time left. I am sure they will like that better than the draw which is inevitable.Deja moo said:
I think India did that with a team when a few days were rained off on an ocassion.. It was either Sri Lanka or West Indies - most likely Sri Lanka if I am not mistaken.