"Explore the Indian side of Punjab"– Imran on fast bowling...or its absence in India

[cricketboy29]

while we 're on the topic of indian fast bowlers, pathan didnt look too hot in that match against pakistan it must be said. He was good before, because he mixed swing with pace, now hes average pace in that match was 125 km/hr. This is our spearhead?!!!?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

while we 're on the topic of indian fast bowlers, pathan didnt look too hot in that match against pakistan it must be said. He was good before, because he mixed swing with pace, now hes average pace in that match was 125 km/hr. This is our spearhead?!!!?

Sounds similar to what happened to Anderson, he started bowling much faster when he first broke into the scene. But then having to basically lead the England attack really took its toll on his body and his pace suffered greatly (or maybe its not similar and im talking crap ).

On the topic of this thread i think its all to do with pitches. Who in their right mind is going to grow up wanting to bowl 90mph on pitches where you'll get no reward. England have the exact opposite problem. Pitches are too seamer friendly so we end up with bowlers sticking to mid 80's speed and relying on seam/swing movement because it works fine for them in the conditions. Theres no real motivation for them to bust a gut and bowl at 90mph+ or take up spin bowling.

 

[shankar]

while we 're on the topic of indian fast bowlers, pathan didnt look too hot in that match against pakistan it must be said. He was good before, because he mixed swing with pace, now hes average pace in that match was 125 km/hr. This is our spearhead?!!!?

The Ten sports commentators had noticed that he had changed his bowling grip to an unusual one with his thumb fully extended horizontal beneath the ball. Imran said that this was a serious flaw (but obviously easily correctable) and was definitely the reason why his pace has dropped. Apparently he's holding the ball that way to keep his wrists locked (to release it correctly for swing).

 

[Langeveldt]

I was thinking about the makeup of South African cricket, the nature and nurture argument, and how does it explain that most of our most established black players (Ntini, Zondeki, Ngam, Tshabalala, Nkwe) are all bowlers? Yet pretty much all the finest batsmen in the country, bar Gibbs and Prince are Afrikaans/English (de Villiers, Kallis, Smith, Rudolph)? The trend is obvious but I don't know how to explain it..

 

[SJS]

I was thinking about the makeup of South African cricket, the nature and nurture argument, and how does it explain that most of our most established black players (Ntini, Zondeki, Ngam, Tshabalala, Nkwe) are all bowlers? Yet pretty much all the finest batsmen in the country, bar Gibbs and Prince are Afrikaans/English (de Villiers, Kallis, Smith, Rudolph)? The trend is obvious but I don't know how to explain it..

The physique is a major part of any athlete's attributes. Thus certain types of physiques are advantageous for certain activities.

The afro-americans who were brought as slaves and the best were picked (physically speaking) and from them the best survived. These muscular people are always going to produce a high proportion of athletes requiring sheer strength and muscular power viz sprints.

The central and north african people have been amongst the most deprived for thousands of years (deprived of even the minimum of what we think is necessary intake for human survival) and their bodies have evolved to survive the harshest conditions. They will always produce athletes for sports rewquiring endurance viz mid to long distance runs and walks.

Then there is diet and even natural mental make up. Some people are more aggressive in their make up than others. This will help in certain kinds of sporting endeavours. Fast bowling is one such.

Just like there is discussion on why India does not produce fast bowlers there has always been debates on why India produces so many spinners. Similar arguments are put forward there too. Guile and cunning which the Brahmin (teacher) coomunity and the Bania(trader community) posesses naturally through hundreds of years of conditioning/genes whatever has been put forward by some to be a reason.

 

[Arjun]

while we 're on the topic of indian fast bowlers, pathan didnt look too hot in that match against pakistan it must be said. He was good before, because he mixed swing with pace, now hes average pace in that match was 125 km/hr. This is our spearhead?!!!?

That's a good question. As someone said, the commentators observed his thumb extending fully across the ball, which reduced pace, but that was supposed to get more swing. Maybe that's what Irfan should try for, since he's a swing bowler, not a tearaway pacer. That said, the same bowler could bowl consistently in the 130's in the past, as well as a few in the 140's, so the people in charge– fitness trainer, biomechanics expert, blah....– should also work on that. Anyway, if there was a tearaway pacer operating at the other end, and not some little slow-medium bowler, Irfan's lack of pace (or JP Yadav's) wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Jono]

No Pathan should definitely change that grip, even if he does swing it a little more or has more control of his swing that way. Imran was really shocked by that grip, and continously insisted that he could still get great swing and control it with a fairly conventional grip of the ball. Swing at Pathan's pace on flat tracks isn't going to trouble the best batsman in the world. There's no doubt in my mind that whilst he has improved greatly in terms of his cricket brain and is overall a smarter bowler, if I wanted a bowler to lead the Indian test attack I'd rather the Pathan of 2004 than the Pathan of 2006. I hope he fixes up that grip, if it is indeed the cause of his drop in pace. The other day at training I tried mucking around and bowling with Pathan's grip, and whilst I'm far from a tear away (bowl spin anyway so my seam up isn't quick in the first place) it slowed me down a lot. I may as well have had no run-up.

 

[SJS]

I dont think his new grip contributes to swing in anyway. Unless he is using it to help him keep the seam from wobbling at the point of delivery. The straightened thumb under the seam is good enough.

I wonder where he picked this up from ?

 

[Pratters]

But we must not forget that we have the smaller part of the original Punjab state and of that we have a much smaller proportion of the sturdier Punjabi race as compared to West Punjab or Pakistani Punjab.

So are you originally Eastern or Western!?

 

[Pratters]

Just like there is discussion on why India does not produce fast bowlers there has always been debates on why India produces so many spinners. Similar arguments are put forward there too. Guile and cunning which the Brahmin (teacher) coomunity and the Bania(trader community) posesses naturally through hundreds of years of conditioning/genes whatever has been put forward by some to be a reason.

Oh yes. I haven't heard it on the Brahmin and community division lines. But I have that spinners are more intellegent, have to use their brain more.

Of course I dread Srinath believing the same as well. Also, Bedi, Harbhajan are a rare variety of intellegent/cunning sardars then.