Most Undeserved Averages/Statistics

[LongHopCassidy]

Who on the international cricket stage has stats that belie their true ability, for better or worse?

It's hard to go past Gayle, for one. Conversely, I think Harmison's statistics have been inflated out of proportion.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I think Lee averages higher than he deserves, but that said, with the nature of his bowling and his determination to bowl all day if he has to I think he will always average 29 - 31.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think there are several players who average greater than their perceived ability, but that's largely because of other aspects of their character. Things such as courage, temperament, persistence, desire - these things act to compensate somewhat for what may be a lack of ability. As such, I think that players who consistently average better than their (perceived) talent deserve to do so.

Those who underachieve are a different story, however.

A couple of notable underachievers in my mind:

Daren Ganga
Dwayne Smith

 

[chaminda_00]

Bradman never faced any bowlers of any quaility bar Bedser and Larwood.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Bradman never faced any bowlers of any quaility bar Bedser and Larwood.

Hahaha.

Hedley Verity?

 

[howardj]

Bradman never faced any bowlers of any quaility bar Bedser and Larwood.

Neither did anyone else in that era then. Yet none of them averaged anywhere near 99 - most probably not even half that.

 

[chaminda_00]

I think the saying is tougue and cheek....

 

[Robertinho]

Murali is overrated. His average bar the minnows is 24.5, and away it's 27.3. He only has 463 non-minnow wickets.

EDIT - yes, yes, I am joking.

 

[GotSpin]

Bradman never faced any bowlers of any quaility bar Bedser and Larwood.

Yeah bradman was terrible wasn't he...

 

[C_C]

Kallis.
Has a very modest record against challenging bowling lineups or batting in challenging conditions. Yet he cashes in massively against the minnows/weak bowling attacks/perfect batting conditions.
If he played in any other era bar the current one(and the namby pambies of the amatuer era), even 5-6 years before he started playing, i don't think he would be averaging much over 45.

 

[luckyeddie]

Kallis.
Has a very modest record against challenging bowling lineups or batting in challenging conditions. Yet he cashes in massively against the minnows/weak bowling attacks/perfect batting conditions.
If he played in any other era bar the current one(and the namby pambies of the amatuer era), even 5-6 years before he started playing, i don't think he would be averaging much over 45.

Complete and utter tosh.

 

[howardj]

Kallis.
Has a very modest record against challenging bowling lineups or batting in challenging conditions. Yet he cashes in massively against the minnows/weak bowling attacks/perfect batting conditions.
If he played in any other era bar the current one(and the namby pambies of the amatuer era), even 5-6 years before he started playing, i don't think he would be averaging much over 45.

It must be why he scored 100 today, and averages 56 against Australia this summer.

I think most people would know that Kallis - like most players - had an unsettled time at the start of his career. His average against Australia is distorted by when he first came up against them in that initial period in 1996/97. Kallis came of age in Australia in 1997/98. If you take out that initial series (1996/97), he averages a perfectly respectable 44 against them. And, as I say, his record against Australia this summer (averaging 56) and the fact that he averaged 50 the last time he toured here, tends to put the lie to the claim that he is a 'weak attack bully'. Moreover, even if you take out his Bangladesh and Zimbabwe stats, he still averages over 50.

 

[C_C]

Complete and utter tosh.

Very high quality bowling attacks in the world post 1990:

1. Australia - always above average, superb post 1995
2. West Indies- superb till 2000 or so ( before Ambrose retired)
3. India in India
4. Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka post 1996 ( when Murali started to come on his own)
5. Pakistan till 2000 or so - before Wasim and Waqar became too jaded/over the hill
6. South Africa prior to Donald's retirement


Tendulkar against abovementioned attacks :

53 matches, 94 innings, 7 not outs, 4360 runs @ 50.11, 15x100, 15x50

Lara against abovementioned attacks :

55 matches, 103 innings, 2 not outs, 4927 runs @ 48.78, 12x100, 23x50

Kallis against abovementioned attacks(until last test vs OZ) :

42 matches, 80 innings, 11 not outs, 3092 runs @ 44.81, 6x100, 20x50.


Compared to their career averages, Kallis cashes in massively against marginal bowling attacks and ordinary ones.

 

[C_C]

It must be why he scored 100 today, and averages 56 against Australia this summer.

I think most people would know that Kallis - like most players - had an unsettled time at the start of his career. His average against Australia is distorted by when he first came up against them in that initial period in 1996/97. Kallis came of age in Australia in 1997/98. If you take out that initial series (1996/97), he averages a perfectly respectable 44 against them. And, as I say, his record against Australia this summer (averaging 56) and the fact that he averaged 50 the last time he toured here, tends to put the lie to the claim that he is a 'weak attack bully'. Moreover, even if you take out his Bangladesh and Zimbabwe stats, he still averages over 50.

Please. If i took out the initial career start of a so-n-so player, excluded his off-colour games almost every batsman would be Don Bradman.
Kallis averages in 30s against Pakistan when PAK had Wasim/Waqar, 30s against WI when they had Ambrose and Walsh, 30s against OZ and not too hot in the subcontinent.
He is cashing in massively in the post Donald-Waqar-Wasim-Ambrose-Walsh bowling slump.

 

[open365]

Who on the international cricket stage has stats that belie their true ability, for better or worse?

It's hard to go past Gayle, for one. Conversely, I think Harmison's statistics have been inflated out of proportion.

what do you mean by Harmisons statistics?

He's averaging 28.5 with the ball isn't he? I would say that's aboutr right for Harmison.

 

[howardj]

Please. If i took out the initial career start of a so-n-so player, excluded his off-colour games almost every batsman would be Don Bradman.
.

Geez. You're not half over the top.

 

[Dasa]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Irfan Pathan yet. In terms of his Test bowling record, it's very ordinary when you take minnow wickets out although I'm sure he will soon enough perform against better teams to justify his average.

 

[Dissector]

Stuart McGill. Generally only gets picked when conditions are thought to be spin-friendly which obviously boosts his average. He is a good bowler but not as as good as his figures suggest. Though if he continues his present form his career figures will soon reflect his abilities.

A whole bunch of openers including Sehwag,Hayden and Smith . All fine players but their averages suggest that they rank among the all-time great openers which they don't.

 

[howardj]

Kallis averages in 30s against Pakistan when PAK had Wasim/Waqar, 30s against WI when they had Ambrose and Walsh, 30s against OZ and not too hot in the subcontinent.He is cashing in massively in the post Donald-Waqar-Wasim-Ambrose-Walsh bowling slump.[/QUOTE]

Man, do you just make this stuff up, or what?

I think you'll find, when he came up against a West Indies attack which consisted of Ambrose and Walsh, he averaged 70

Furthermore, when he came up against Pakistan attacks with either Waqar or Wasim, he averaged 45.

Finally, his record on the subcontinent is anything but 'not too hot'. He averages 45.

You just try to bamboozle people with stats, which are far from accurate.

 

[luckyeddie]

Compared to their career averages, Kallis cashes in massively against marginal bowling attacks and ordinary ones.

Sorry it just doesn't wash.

If it were so easy for a batsman as obviously limited as you appear to maintain that Kallis is to cash in against limited attacks, then it must be so easy too for all the other batsmen you name - and of course for all the others you don't.

Why don't they? Why is it always the worst players who seem to have the ability to flay limited attacks, yet those who are so much more gifted seem unable to do so?