Lee vs Akhtar

[grecian]

Shoaib Akthar

Next rivalry Derek Pringle against Richard Hadlee

 

[33/3from3.3]

Paddles

 

[Natman20]

I like watching Lee deliver he looks so smooth in his run up and is agressive but I dont like how he likes to take peoples heads off. Acktar is a great player but I havnt seen him play live before because he was always injured so can't comment on him really.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Akthar. For sure.

 

[Jono]

No contest at test level. Akhtar easily.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Obviously it's Akhtar in tests, though Lee has made some huge strides in recent times and I think he has bowled just as well this summer as Shoaib did against England, and certainly far better than Shoaib usually has in the last couple of years.

In ODIs, Lee by a mile.

 

[Dasa]

Obviously it's Akhtar in tests, though Lee has made some huge strides in recent times and I think he has bowled just as well this summer as Shoaib did against England, and certainly far better than Shoaib usually has in the last couple of years.

Umm...did you actually see Shoaib bowl against England, and have you actually seen him bowl in the last couple of years?? He's only had 2 bad series' in the last two years (if taking 11 wickets at 30 against Aus is a bad series) while Lee hasn't even been close. Even now, with Lee bowling at his best he's averaging over 30 for the year....I cannot see how on earth you can say Lee has been bowling "certainly far better than Shoaib" in the last few years.

 

[Maison]

No, he doesn't. He's always been a potential match-winner, Lee's only looked like one very recently (against a poor West Indian side).

Lee in the past few months, in test matches anyways, has shown some glimpes of being a 'as u call' a 'match winner'.

i wouldnt exactly say he bowled that badly in england, some of the wickets he got were brilliant, and he bowled excellently against south africa in the 2nd test a few days ago...

south africas a weak side aswell?

i think not

I like watching Lee deliver he looks so smooth in his run up and is agressive but I dont like how he likes to take peoples heads off. Acktar is a great player but I havnt seen him play live before because he was always injured so can't comment on him really.

yeah ....then i looked at your location, new zealand. jesus mate, get off it. he doesnt do it on purpose, him and his captain give valid reasons. lee is probably one of the 'kindest' people in the aussie team, just look at him, when have u seen him get all angry like mcgrath or whatever? and besides he always gives a legitimate (looking) apology after every bad/dangerous ball he does......

 

[adharcric]

shoaib is already world-class, lee is on the verge of achieving that. if you asked me a month ago, i might've said lee because of akhtar's injuries, attitude etc, but overall, right now it's akhtar.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Umm...did you actually see Shoaib bowl against England, and have you actually seen him bowl in the last couple of years?? He's only had 2 bad series' in the last two years (if taking 11 wickets at 30 against Aus is a bad series) while Lee hasn't even been close. Even now, with Lee bowling at his best he's averaging over 30 for the year....I cannot see how on earth you can say Lee has been bowling "certainly far better than Shoaib" in the last few years.

That's not what I said. What I said was, Lee right now is bowling better than Shoaib has been in recent times generally, while Shoaib has been in and out of the team and down on form. Lee before this home summer was obviously never anywhere near as good as Shoaib, but I think this summer he has been just as good.

This is talking entirely about tests, of course. Lee has generally been a pretty average bowler in test cricket, capable of a good spell or an unplayable ball but never consistent enough, but he has improved a great deal. Shoaib has been a quality bowler despite various problems throughout his career.

 

[Dasa]

That's not what I said. What I said was, Lee right now is bowling better than Shoaib has been in recent times generally, while Shoaib has been in and out of the team and down on form. Lee before this home summer was obviously never anywhere near as good as Shoaib, but I think this summer he has been just as good.

This is talking entirely about tests, of course. Lee has generally been a pretty average bowler in test cricket, capable of a good spell or an unplayable ball but never consistent enough, but he has improved a great deal. Shoaib has been a quality bowler despite various problems throughout his career.

OK, fair enough. I still think Shoaib has been bowling better than Lee this year, despite how well Lee has bowled, and I don't think the gulf between them in ODIs is that big either.

 

[Jono]

There's no way Lee has bowled equally as well at test level than Akhtar in 2005. Honestly, compare what Lee did against England on much more bowler friendly wickets compared to how Shoaib bowled against England on the flat tracks of Pakistan. Its an no contest.

That doesn't mean Lee hasn't improved because he has, but Lee's not cleaning up sides at under 25 like Akhtar does. And you can't use the excuse that he's going to go for runs with his pace in this argument

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

There's no way Lee has bowled equally as well at test level than Akhtar in 2005. Honestly, compare what Lee did against England on much more bowler friendly wickets compared to how Shoaib bowled against England on the flat tracks of Pakistan. Its an no contest.

That doesn't mean Lee hasn't improved because he has, but Lee's not cleaning up sides at under 25 like Akhtar does. And you can't use the excuse that he's going to go for runs with his pace in this argument

The wickets in England weren't bowler friendly at all, except at Lords, where Lee did reasonably well, and at Trent Bridge and The Oval when it was overcast, when Lee didn't get to bowl. Anyway, I think he's bowling much better now than he was in England... which is why I said this home summer and not for the whole year. There's not much to argue on really since it can easily be said that Lee's just had a good few tests, but I think he's bowled rather brilliantly. That 3/90 he took at the MCG was the best he's ever bowled, and it's unbelievable he didn't take 5 or more wickets.

 

[Jono]

Fair enough on the whole summer rather than year aspect, but the road outside my house is more bowler friendly than the wickets served up in the Pakistan vs. England series. The wickets in the Ashes were comparatively far more bowler friendly than those in Pakistan. I never said they were raging seamers equal to New Zealand 2002/03, but what Akhtar managed to do on those wickets in a make-or-break series for his career was absolutely amazing, and this whole argument that its unbelievable how Lee doesn't get 5+ wickets when he bowls that well and how his stats don't show the full story can also be used on Shoaib's series against Pakistan. He ended up with 17 at 24.58 when his bowling was far better than that (not that those statistics are mediocre, because they are great for the wickets. But he bowled even better than what those stats showed).

I understand the argument that Lee's figures don't always show how well he bowled, but it goes both ways as well. There is still a massive difference between Shoaib and Lee, and as you pointed out yourself, one summer doesn't make him anywhere near the better bowler.

 

[honestbharani]

Akhtar. I would have said Akhtar easily a few months ago, but Lee has been improving. We will have to wait and see how they go next year. I predict that the gap might close even further.

 

[C_C]

Akhtar is a significantly better Test bowler than Lee, while Lee is a bit better than Akhtar in ODIs.

 

[Xuhaib]

Originally Posted by Jono
Fair enough on the whole summer rather than year aspect, but the road outside my house is more bowler friendly than the wickets served up in the Pakistan vs. England series. The wickets in the Ashes were comparatively far more bowler friendly than those in Pakistan. I never said they were raging seamers equal to New Zealand 2002/03, but what Akhtar managed to do on those wickets in a make-or-break series for his career was absolutely amazing, and this whole argument that its unbelievable how Lee doesn't get 5+ wickets when he bowls that well and how his stats don't show the full story can also be used on Shoaib's series against Pakistan. He ended up with 17 at 24.58 when his bowling was far better than that (not that those statistics are mediocre, because they are great for the wickets. But he bowled even better than what those stats showed).

Spot on Jono. Faaip you talk about Lee 3/90 did u actually see Akhtar 1/45 at Lahore in third test first innings on another day it could easily have been 4/30. Infact i remember Beefy and Manjeraker mentioning before the 2nd innings of the third test that Akhtar has been unlucky not to net in a five wicket haul anytime in the series.
Regarding ODI's Lee is clearly a very good bowler but if you look Akhtar's past record in ODI's its extreamly healthy and in the past couple of seasons i admit it has gone down but thats more to do with the fact tht Akhtar has not been able to play a good number of ODI's on the trot.

 

[marc71178]

He's only had 2 bad series' in the last two years (if taking 11 wickets at 30 against Aus is a bad series)

But how many series has he not been selected for?

 

[marc71178]

i wouldnt exactly say he bowled that badly in england

Although the figures were harsh, I wouldn't say he bowled that well.

 

[luckyeddie]

If Shoaib's recent mental stability continues, then he wins over Lee hands down. If it doesn't, he STILL wins but it's closer. Brett Lee showed considerable improvement in England during 2005, but he's still got an awful long way to go before he can get close to what Shoaib is capable of.