Greatest ever South African XI

[aussie]

When people talk about great XI's, West Indies, Australia, Pakistan, India & England are the common countries talked about while others countries are payed much attention to. I read an article about the SA team that beat Australia 4-0 in 1969-70 & boy if you look at the talent they had in the 60's & 80's combine it with some of the top players they have produced since their readmission to international cricket you would get a one of the best all time XI's & aslo its disappointing that they had race problems since they had some of the best crickets who never had the chance to really state their claim at test level.

1. Barry Richards
2. Gary Kirsten
3. Jaques Kallis
4. Graeme Pollock * - Captain
5. Eddie Barlow
6. Mike Procter
7. Denis Lindsay + - W/Keeper
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Peter Pollock
10. Hugh Tayfield
11. Allan Donald

Unlucky to miss out are big names like: Clive Rice, Trevor Goddard, Daryll Cullian, Colin Bland, Peter Kirsten

 

[Craig]

If you did an ODI all-time XI you would think Jonty Rhodes would be a strong chance of being picked.

And Mark Boucher could push Lindsay's place.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

1. Barry Richards
2. Eddie Barlow
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Colin Bland
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Jock Cameron+
7. Mike Procter
8. Peter Pollock
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Hugh Tayfield
11. Allan Donald

 

[archie mac]

1. Barry Richards
2. Eddie Barlow
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Colin Bland
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Jock Cameron+
7. Mike Procter
8. Peter Pollock
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Hugh Tayfield
11. Allan Donald

Jock Cameron a great hitter, but if you are going to go back that far than I think AD Nourse would be very hard to hold out

 

[archie mac]

When people talk about great XI's, West Indies, Australia, Pakistan, India & England are the common countries talked about while others countries are payed much attention to. I read an article about the SA team that beat Australia 4-0 in 1969-70 & boy if you look at the talent they had in the 60's & 80's combine it with some of the top players they have produced since their readmission to international cricket you would get a one of the best all time XI's & aslo its disappointing that they had race problems since they had some of the best crickets who never had the chance to really state their claim at test level.

1. Barry Richards
2. Gary Kirsten
3. Jaques Kallis
4. Graeme Pollock * - Captain
5. Eddie Barlow
6. Mike Procter
7. Denis Lindsay + - W/Keeper
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Peter Pollock
10. Hugh Tayfield
11. Allan Donald

Unlucky to miss out are big names like: Clive Rice, Trevor Goddard, Daryll Cullian, Colin Bland, Peter Kirsten

Fine side who would you make 12th man just for fielding Bland or Jonty?

 

[Beleg]

1. B Richards
2. G Kirsten
3. G Pollock
4. J Kallis
5. D Nourse
6. M Proctor
7. P Pollock
8. M Boucher
9. S Pollock
10. A Donald
11. Fannie DeVilliers (sp?)

12th man: Tayfield


For ODI's Gary Kirsten and Nourse will be replaced by Jonty Rhodes and Cronje with Lance Klunener coming in as super-sub.

 

[SJS]

Unlucky to miss out are big names like: Clive Rice, Trevor Goddard, Daryll Cullian, Colin Bland, Peter Kirsten

You could add a few more to that 'unlucky' list. Some of them all time greats.

1. Neil Adcock. : Probably the fastest ever fast bowler to come out of SAfrica. Formed the most feared bowling duo of his time with Peter Heine. Got his 100 test wickets faster(25 tests) than anyother SAfrican fast bowler barring Donald and at a lower cost (21.1) than anyone else. He should be there opening the bowling with Donald.

2. Bruce Mitchell: Opening batsman with a batting average approaching fifty (not a common thing in his times) and a decent bowler who took 4 for 26 against Australia in 1935 and three tests later bettered it with 4 for 87. On his batting alone he would challenge Kirsten to partner Richards.

3. Arthur Nourse: Considered by many as the greatest ever SAfrican batsman. Averaged 53.8 in test matches. 23 scores above fifty in his 34 tests(including 9 hundreds with a top score of 231) shows his consistency and class inspite of his prime years being cut short by WWII. Should be an automatic choice for number 4 in the batting order.

4. George Faulkner: Considered by many as the greatest all rounder to come out of SAfrica and one of the greatest the world has seen. Not surprising considering his batting average of 40.8(4 centuries and a top score of 204) and with his right arm legspin he managed a bowling average of 26.6 (82 wickets in 25 tests at a strike rate of 51.6). It would be difficult to leave him out of most sides let alone SAfrican.

5 and 6.Denis Lindsay and John Waite: Both keeping all rounders. Superb records. Worth stating :-

Keeper.....Tests.....Runs.....50's.....100's.....Highest....Avg.....Victims.....V/test

Lindsay......19........1130.......5..........3..........182..........37.7..........56.....2.95

Waite.........50........2405.....16..........4..........134..........30.4.........141.....2.82

Cameron.....26........1239.....10..........0..........90...........30.2..........51.....1.96

Then there are spinners Vogler and Schwarz who deserve a mention too.

 

[Langeveldt]

How about Vintcent van der Bijl? the best player surely never to play a test match.. Averaged 16 with the ball or something in county cricket..

 

[a massive zebra]

1. Barry Richards
2. Bruce Mitchell
3. Dudley Nourse
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Herbie Taylor
6. Jacques Kallis
7. Mike Proctor (cpt)
8. Mark Boucher (wk)
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Hugh Tayfield
11. Allan Donald

 

[Craig]

How about Vintcent van der Bijl? the best player surely never to play a test match.. Averaged 16 with the ball or something in county cricket..

Didn't he play while South Africa were banned? Because I remember reading that name from somewhere.

 

[SJS]

Here is my selection with main figures.

#...PLAYER....Bat Avg...TYPE....Bowl Avg
1...Barry Richards...72.6.....xxx...........xxx
2...Bruce Mitchell...48.9......xxx..........xxx
3...Pollock.............61.0......xxx..........xxx
4...Nourse.............53.8......xxx..........xxx
5...Kallis...............56.5......Med Fast...31.8
6...Faulkner..........40.8......Leg Spin....26.6
7...Cameron..........30.2.....Keeper......xxx
8...Proctor ............25.1.....Med Fast...15.0
9...Tayfield ............16.9.....Off Spin.....25.9
10.Donald ............10.7.....FAST ........22.3
11.Adcock .............5.4......FAST ........21.1

A very strong batting line up and a very varied and deep bowling line up with three world class all rounders and an all time great wicket keeper. They could actually afford to drop a bowler and take another batsman, thanks to the all rounders.

 

[Autobahn]

Didn't he play while South Africa were banned? Because I remember reading that name from somewhere.

Taken from cricinfo:

Vintcent van der Bijl was one of the best bowlers not to play Test cricket, his entire career spanning the years of South Africa's sporting isolation (although he was chosen for the squad which for the cancelled tour of Australia in 1971-72). In his pomp he was probably the leading fast-medium bowler in the world, combining awesome accuracy with deceptive pace and bounce (as expected from a man of 6ft 7½in) as well as a stamina which belied his size. His appearance was deceptive (he was described by John Arlott as looking like Lord Longford "only not nearly as forgiving") and he remained fit throughout his career, even developing into a surprisingly sound fielder and useful tail-end hitter. His performances throughout the 1970s for Natal were legendary - he held numerous records, including most wickets for Natal, most wickets in a South African season (65), most wickets by any South African bowler, and most wickets in domestic one-day competitions.

By 1980 he was in the twilight of his career and had just given up teaching (he was never a professional cricketer) and gone into business when he was offered a chance to play for Middlesex. His new employers gave him six months off to allow him to fulfil the dream of playing outside South Africa. Unknown to many, he made an immediate impact with a resurgent Middlesex side led by Mike Brearley, helped by his new-ball partner, Wayne Daniel, who had been expected to be absent with the touring West Indies. van der Bijl ended with 85 wickets at 14.72 apiece, finishing virtually top of the first-class bowling averages. He made a massive contribution to Middlesex's victories in the Schweppes County Championship and the Gillette Cup. Hugely popular, he returned for a one-off appearance for them against MCC in 1981. "Most of all he brought, Wisden wrote, "a breath of fresh air with his immense enthusiasm, his love of playing cricket, and his bubbling friendship for other cricketers. He would have enjoyed it however it had worked out, and would have remembered it all his days. In the event, a lot of others, players and spectators, were to remember it too."

 

[atichon]

How about Vintcent van der Bijl? the best player surely never to play a test match.. Averaged 16 with the ball or something in county cricket..

Not to forget Clive Rice. He was a tremendous all-rounder with a great attitude. Had he played test cricket, he woul have been remembered as one of the great all-rounders of that period along with Botham, Imran, Hadlee, Kapil Dev...

 

[Autobahn]

Not to forget Clive Rice. He was a tremendous all-rounder with a great attitude. Had he played test cricket, he woul have been remembered as one of the great all-rounders of that period along with Botham, Imran, Hadlee, Kapil Dev...

Ah yes nothing better than Clive Rice and Richard Hadlee taking sides apart at trent bridge

 

[aussie]

Taken from cricinfo:

Vintcent van der Bijl was one of the best bowlers not to play Test cricket, his entire career spanning the years of South Africa's sporting isolation (although he was chosen for the squad which for the cancelled tour of Australia in 1971-72). In his pomp he was probably the leading fast-medium bowler in the world, combining awesome accuracy with deceptive pace and bounce (as expected from a man of 6ft 7½in) as well as a stamina which belied his size. His appearance was deceptive (he was described by John Arlott as looking like Lord Longford "only not nearly as forgiving") and he remained fit throughout his career, even developing into a surprisingly sound fielder and useful tail-end hitter. His performances throughout the 1970s for Natal were legendary - he held numerous records, including most wickets for Natal, most wickets in a South African season (65), most wickets by any South African bowler, and most wickets in domestic one-day competitions.

By 1980 he was in the twilight of his career and had just given up teaching (he was never a professional cricketer) and gone into business when he was offered a chance to play for Middlesex. His new employers gave him six months off to allow him to fulfil the dream of playing outside South Africa. Unknown to many, he made an immediate impact with a resurgent Middlesex side led by Mike Brearley, helped by his new-ball partner, Wayne Daniel, who had been expected to be absent with the touring West Indies. van der Bijl ended with 85 wickets at 14.72 apiece, finishing virtually top of the first-class bowling averages. He made a massive contribution to Middlesex's victories in the Schweppes County Championship and the Gillette Cup. Hugely popular, he returned for a one-off appearance for them against MCC in 1981. "Most of all he brought, Wisden wrote, "a breath of fresh air with his immense enthusiasm, his love of playing cricket, and his bubbling friendship for other cricketers. He would have enjoyed it however it had worked out, and would have remembered it all his days. In the event, a lot of others, players and spectators, were to remember it too."

oh my look at him, i never heard about him. Dear SA could have really been a powerhouse in 70's & 80's if it weren't for the racism, dalm.

 

[greg]

Well, one of the greats has passed

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/44045.html

 

[luckyeddie]

oh my look at him, i never heard about him. Dear SA could have really been a powerhouse in 70's & 80's if it weren't for the racism, dalm.

It's debatable, of course, but I reckon they could have been the greatest side of all time.

 

[aussie]

Here is my selection with main figures.

#...PLAYER....Bat Avg...TYPE....Bowl Avg
1...Barry Richards...72.6.....xxx...........xxx
2...Bruce Mitchell...48.9......xxx..........xxx
3...Pollock.............61.0......xxx..........xxx
4...Nourse.............53.8......xxx..........xxx
5...Kallis...............56.5......Med Fast...31.8
6...Faulkner..........40.8......Leg Spin....26.6
7...Cameron..........30.2.....Keeper......xxx
8...Proctor ............25.1.....Med Fast...15.0
9...Tayfield ............16.9.....Off Spin.....25.9
10.Donald ............10.7.....FAST ........22.3
11.Adcock .............5.4......FAST ........21.1

A very strong batting line up and a very varied and deep bowling line up with three world class all rounders and an all time great wicket keeper. They could actually afford to drop a bowler and take another batsman, thanks to the all rounders.

wow this looks even stronger than mine, its debatable who would keep between Lindsay & Cameron or Faulkner & Barlow but i guess you are right about Faulker since he's a spinner & with all the seam bowling options around he would be good back-up to Tayfield.

 

[SJS]

Well, one of the greats has passed

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/44045.html

R.I.P.
Eddie Barlow​

 

[SJS]

wow this looks even stronger than mine, its debatable who would keep between Lindsay & Cameron or Faulkner & Barlow but i guess you are right about Faulker since he's a spinner & with all the seam bowling options around he would be good back-up to Tayfield.

Well Lindsay was surely the better batsman but by all accounts, Cameron was the greatest keeper to cpme from South Africa.

In the book on the Greatest Wicket Keepers over time by David Lemmon, he is the only South African keeper with a chapter to himself. Excerpts :

His batting ability has been mentioned, but fierce as his attacking stroke play was, he was no slogger and it is as one of the world's great wicket-keepers that he is remembered. In his time he was ranked on a par with Oldfield and Ames. The latter thought him magneficient. "He was a charming man. He stood up to nearly everybody and his keeping to Bell, who could be very quick and erratic, was marvellous"

Indeed ease was the word most readily used of his keeping. His style was once described as ' the perfection of ease and rapidity without unnecessary show' and his incredibly quick stumping was likened, in one memorable phrase, to 'the nonchalant gesture of a smoker flicking the ash from a cigarette'.

I think you were right in the choice of Cameron and his batting wasnt bad. He once hit Verity for 444666 in one six ball over !

I think South Africa over time has produced really great cricketers and some of the finest all rounders the game has seen.

Besides Faulkner, Proctor and Kallis in this side, one can readily think of Eddie Barlow and Clive Rice from relatively recent times. I think they would give a fight to any side in the world. We can only guess what Barry richards and Pollock would have ended up with had their careers not been so tragically cut short.