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Is Flintoff an overrated batsman ?

Salamuddin

International Debutant
He averaged 20 in Pakistan, 28 in SAF last winter and 23 in Sri lanka the winter before.

That's pretty poor for a guy who bats in the top six.

He averaged 40 in this year's Ashes - but was helped by big scores in the test Mcgrath wasn't bowling (Edgbaston).

Look at his record since 2003 (the period of his improvement) and his only really decent achievment as a batsman was averaging 50+ against RSA to home.
Apart from that, he 's been very poor away from home (in the three countries aforementioned), did so-so against the Aussies at home and and has dined out on weak West Indian bowling (home and away) and very weak New Zealand bowling attack at home.

I think Freddy is a top pace bowler (in the top three in the world) but I just think his batting is overhyped - very hit and miss.

You may all respond,
Later.

Salamauddin.



.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Flintoff is a frustrating batsman. He's got a lot of talent, a very good technique, and has even managed to improve pretty significantly against spin. He does however find new and inventive ways to get out for low scores, and just doesn't show enough consistency to be a regular number 6 without a strong lower order below him.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
FaaipDeOiad said:
Flintoff is a frustrating batsman. He's got a lot of talent, a very good technique, and has even managed to improve pretty significantly against spin. He does however find new and inventive ways to get out for low scores, and just doesn't show enough consistency to be a regular number 6 without a strong lower order below him.

I actually think he doesn't have a great technique for handling spinners. He tends to play from the crease alot with "hard' hands.
On pitches where the ball grips more of the surface, he'll be found out.

I'd be surprised if the Hindustani spinners don't trouble him in March.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Always been the case - Freddie is one of those players who is going to blow hot and cold with the bat, we're just going to have to live with the occasional frustration.

Some players are like that - Botham was similar in many ways.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
dontcloseyoureyes said:
The fact that he's bowled every over from one end since the beginning of the ashes will be the death of his batting in tests.
Never mind.

We'll have Plunkett at 6 next year - then Freddie can just be a bowler.

( :p )
 

dontcloseyoureyes

BARNES OUT
luckyeddie said:
Never mind.

We'll have Plunkett at 6 next year - then Freddie can just be a bowler.

( :p )
England's new plan of attack: Drive all our potential world class all-rounders into the ground with horrid workloads. By the time his kidneys fail and he dies in the outfield another promising player should have arisen. :happy:
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
dontcloseyoureyes said:
England's new plan of attack: Drive all our potential world class all-rounders into the ground with horrid workloads. By the time his kidneys fail and he dies in the outfield another promising player should have arisen. :happy:
Was that what happened to Chris Lewis, Craig White and all those all-rounders post-Botham?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Anyway, all-rounders seem to work better in packs than on their own. For instance, South Africa of the late 90's and the current NZ side have played more than two all-rounders and have done rather well.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Workload with the ball is a massive factor. Couple that with a less-than-straight technique outside off-stump (i.e. unlike more orthodox players, Freddie's head is rarely over the handle of his bat outside off-stump) and you see why his batting is suffering. I've maintained for a long time now (certainly on these boards) that he should never bat higher than 7. Mainly for workload reasons, though. No-one who bowls as much as he does in the modern era should bat as high as he does. It's just too much and as I've said before, I don't think he'll play in the next Ashes series at this rate.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
dontcloseyoureyes said:
England's new plan of attack: Drive all our potential world class all-rounders into the ground with horrid workloads. By the time his kidneys fail and he dies in the outfield another promising player should have arisen. :happy:
Is Rikki Clarke making a comeback to the England Team?
 

Buddhmaster

International Captain
I dunno. I've always, and still think Flintoff is an overrated player. I know he's a very good player, very strong bowler, puts it in the right spots. But his bowling isn't good enough for him to be named best player in the world (don't rate his batting highly). But then again, I couldn't say who is the best player in the world.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Top_Cat said:
Workload with the ball is a massive factor. Couple that with a less-than-straight technique outside off-stump (i.e. unlike more orthodox players, Freddie's head is rarely over the handle of his bat outside off-stump) and you see why his batting is suffering. I've maintained for a long time now (certainly on these boards) that he should never bat higher than 7. Mainly for workload reasons, though. No-one who bowls as much as he does in the modern era should bat as high as he does. It's just too much and as I've said before, I don't think he'll play in the next Ashes series at this rate.
very good post hear TC, all very true. Freddie is Vaughan ace with the ball & he has been overbowled a lot of late & with the amount of cricket England have to play between now & the start of the ashes if his bowling load isn't reduced he may well & not play & even if he does he may not be as good as this year.

With regards to his batting position the only ways i can see him batting at 7 now are:

1. If Jones starts batting superbly & forces Fletcher and Vaughan to bat him in the top 6

2. If England go for a 4-prong seam attack only, thus dropping Gilo.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
aussie said:
you must admit for a while White really did show great potential of being a top-class all-rounder.
Erm when was that exactly?

He only ever had 1 series with a bowling average below 30, and that was on some of the most helpful wickets seen in England in years.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
Erm when was that exactly?

He only ever had 1 series with a bowling average below 30, and that was on some of the most helpful wickets seen in England in years.
yes then & then he followed it up with some good performances in PAK & SRI with bat & ball. For at that time i thought he was on the road to becoming one, then the 2001 ashes & he fell away.
 

Autobahn

State 12th Man
White was always more of a bits & pieces player who was a much better ODI bowler than in tests i don't think many people considered him a true allrounder.

And flintoff's batting is just like botham's who would go a while without any big scores and then smack himself a meaty 80 or 100.
 

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