***Official*** India in Pakistan

[pug]

If he hadn't made those big domestic scores, he wouldn't have been brought back to the national team. Once he was in, it was those "fighting" scores of 39 and 40 which gave the protesters some merit after his removal for the 3rd test. His being brought back for the Pakistan series was alright because of the 'experience' factor which the selectors came up with, but the real reason for his selection was the political pressure.

After the 2nd test, Kaif should've been dropped and Ganguly relegated to the bench. Why can't Ganguly sit on the bench? If he's ready to be "just another player", being in the squad but not in the playing XI is exactly that. One might feel sorry for Kaif, but he'll get plenty of chances in the future and he blew his chances in the 3rd test; at the time it's more important to give Ganguly his do-or-die and finish that drama.

Now, here's the tough part. Yuvraj is clearly the better option than Ganguly, but if we don't play Ganguly in the XI, he'll remain there like a virus in the team. Something tells me we need to go with Ganguly in one of these matches and hope that he emphatically displays either his brilliance or his patheticness. He needs to establish himself as a batsman based on merit or call it a day because of his lack of performance. We've all had enough of this crap.

Experience factor? When you already have Sachin, Dravid, Kumble and Agarkar, you have tons of exp. And the others Laxman, Sehwag, Harbhajan, etc... have been playing test cricket for ages as well. Also, considering he might not actually be in the playing 11, why not as well get Sunil Gavaskar or Kapil Dev. I'm sure with their experience at work from the benches, the Indian side will be much better serviced. It seemed to me that this whole thing was just an excuse given to make his inclusion appear legitimate.

You've got it all write at the third para. Thats perhaps the reason why the selectors didn't want him in the squad if he wouldn't be in the 11. I agree its important to get over with this drama but I'm afraid it wont be do-or-die for him. By rights he should have himself given or been given (worst case) a fixed time by which to retire gracefully. That much should have been done for him.

 

[Arjun]

Do you reckon that will happen? 5 batsmen, 5 bowlers and a w/k batsman... Even with pathan playing like he is, I think its a bit risky. You can't trust Kumble, Harbhajan, Agarkar to really be consistent. And I don't see any other bowler of Pathan's batting standard. This means a tail that begins from no 8 with Dhoni and Pathan and 6 and 7. I know they have been doing wonders currently, but I still think its too soon to depend on them like we do on other batsmen.

Frankly, that sixth batsman doesn't count. Except Sachin, Laxman, Dravid and an in-form Sehwag, NONE of the batsmen look capable of playing a long innings. None are double-century contenders. Looking at the optiosn available, they'll only get a few 40's, but no big scores. On the other hand, the Indian bowling lineup is one man short. They need that extra wicket, so that fifth bowler has to make the team.

This is why I was pushing for the selection of a second bowler who can bat, or an all-rounder from the domestic scene. Haryana's Joginder Sharma has been taking wickets by the bucketful in Ranji matches, and has also scored two half-centuries. He's a practising all-rounder for his team, and is their leading bowler– and also a key middle-order batsman. I've said enough about Joginder on this board (bats like Kaif, bowls like Balaji, both Test contenders), and he's a good choice for the Test side– not only will he get that extra wicket, but also score vital runs in combination with Irfan– as much as the sixth batsman, or even more. Another option is Munaf Patel, that hyped tearaway who's also an effective six-hitter like Justin Kemp– but fielding and fitness are problems.

 

[What-A-Player]

I appreciate one thing about the Indians

They are quiet, no public comments, no cr@pinfo drama

Paks are throwing the challenge, will work or not; who knows? but a game of 2 coaches

 

[SJS]

Pawar/selectors/media/fans/parliamentarians/Kolkatans have bowled a googly to the Indian team mangement which is impossible to play.

1. If they do not select Ganguly (unless someone in the middle order, Tendulkar, Yuvraj, Laxman fails in a manner to justify the change) and make him sit on the bench
- they are going to be hanged for treating a former skipper with disrespect and
- their effigies will be burned in Kolkata and
- parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
- there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games.

2. If they select Ganguly to open the innings (this is the only spot where the other batsman - Gambhir- and his supporters cant crib)
- they are going to be hanged for making a sacrifical goat of Ganguly and attempting to finish his career (if not get him killed by Shoaib) and
- their effigies will be burned in Kolkata and
- parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
- there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games in the middle order.

3. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Yuvraj or Laxman
- they are going to be hanged either for discontinuing the policy of supporting youth as started by the earlier (read Ganguly+coach) management while older players(read Sachin/Laxman) are being shielded OR
- of using a Godfatherless guy as a convenient scape goat while ageing superstars are being pampered and - their effigies will be burned in Chandigarh or Hyderabad and
- parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
- there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games in the middle order.

4. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Tendulkar
- they are going to be hanged - sorry shot dead by an execution squad in Pakistan itself - and
- their will be rejoicing in the streets of India for the killing of Ravana Chappell and
- parliamentarians will go back to the business taking bribes for asking questions in Parliament on what should be done with the bodies in Pakistan PLUS
- Kolkatans will start burning effigies and rasta rokos to have Ganguly back as captain.

Tell you what they should take disciplinary action against half the bowlers in the side and play eight batsman or better still....
Announce that since they have been informed Pakistan has decided to make seamer friendly pitches they are going to drop all spinners and play to score heavily with
Sehwag, Gambhir/Jaffer, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Pathan, Agarkar, Zaheer/RP

Not bad with 'FOUR' seamers, one off spinner, one leg spinner and one left arn leg spinner.

SUPERB !

I think I should apply for healer/dealer/wheeler for the BCCI problems

 

[ClownSymonds]

Haha, great post, SJS. The national sport of India should be changed from wrestling to effigy burning. I'd recommend the last option you suggested - including Ganguly in the middle order and dropping Tendulkar - but I'd also make Ganguly captain. Might as well do away with the coach alltogether, too. Ganguly can fill that role as well. Plus, he is a bowling all-rounder, so there's another seamer.

 

[Sanz]

Pawar/selectors/media/fans/parliamentarians/Kolkatans have bowled a googly to the Indian team mangement which is impossible to play.

1. If they do not select Ganguly (unless someone in the middle order, Tendulkar, Yuvraj, Laxman fails in a manner to justify the change) and make him sit on the bench
- they are going to be hanged for treating a former skipper with disrespect and
- their effigies will be burned in Kolkata and
- parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
- there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games.

2. If they select Ganguly to open the innings (this is the only spot where the other batsman - Gambhir- and his supporters cant crib)
- they are going to be hanged for making a sacrifical goat of Ganguly and attempting to finish his career (if not get him killed by Shoaib) and
- their effigies will be burned in Kolkata and
- parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
- there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games in the middle order.

3. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Yuvraj or Laxman
- they are going to be hanged either for discontinuing the policy of supporting youth as started by the earlier (read Ganguly+coach) management while older players(read Sachin/Laxman) are being shielded OR
- of using a Godfatherless guy as a convenient scape goat while ageing superstars are being pampered and - their effigies will be burned in Chandigarh or Hyderabad and
- parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
- there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games in the middle order.

4. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Tendulkar
- they are going to be hanged - sorry shot dead by an execution squad in Pakistan itself - and
- their will be rejoicing in the streets of India for the killing of Ravana Chappell and
- parliamentarians will go back to the business taking bribes for asking questions in Parliament on what should be done with the bodies in Pakistan PLUS
- Kolkatans will start burning effigies and rasta rokos to have Ganguly back as captain.

Tell you what they should take disciplinary action against half the bowlers in the side and play eight batsman or better still....
Announce that since they have been informed Pakistan has decided to make seamer friendly pitches they are going to drop all spinners and play to score heavily with
Sehwag, Gambhir/Jaffer, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Pathan, Agarkar, Zaheer/RP

Not bad with 'FOUR' seamers, one off spinner, one leg spinner and one left arn leg spinner.

SUPERB !

I think I should apply for healer/dealer/wheeler for the BCCI problems

Once again this guy comes up with his bias against City of Kolkata. India is a democratic country and people have the right to protest as long as they remain non-violent. Kolkata is not the only city where people protest by burning effigies.

Years ago Mumbai Cricket Fans and Mumbai's ex cricketers did the same thing after Sanjay Manjrekar was dropped from the squad.

Obviously some people suffer from Selective Dementia.

 

[Sanz]

Experience factor? When you already have Sachin, Dravid, Kumble and Agarkar, you have tons of exp. him.

 

[adharcric]

Once again this guy comes up with his bias against City of Kolkata. India is a democratic country and people have the right to protest as long as they remain non-violent. Kolkata is not the only city where people protest by burning effigies.

Years ago Mumbai Cricket Fans and Mumbai's ex cricketers did the same thing after Sanjay Manjrekar was dropped from the squad.

Obviously some people suffer from Selective Dementia.

whatever you say, i have no restraint when i call certain kolkatan fans purely disgraceful. when you cheer for the opposition and jeer the home team, there's no excuse. they're just lucky ganguly scored some runs so their protests seemed to have merit.

 

[pug]

Why? Experience is not the same as skill or sucess.

@ SJS

Ur post just made my otherwise ****ty first day of the year! Must buy u a drink sometime.

 

[honestbharani]

Once again this guy comes up with his bias against City of Kolkata. India is a democratic country and people have the right to protest as long as they remain non-violent. Kolkata is not the only city where people protest by burning effigies.

Years ago Mumbai Cricket Fans and Mumbai's ex cricketers did the same thing after Sanjay Manjrekar was dropped from the squad.

Obviously some people suffer from Selective Dementia.

Doesn't make what happened in Kolkata right, Sanz. The people of Kolkata are seriously taking this too far. Ganguly is not good enough to be in the side, it is as simple as that. They just fail to understand that. Sure, Ganguly may be a better option than Kaif at the moment, but one has to keep the future in mind as well. I, for one, think India would have been better served with Kaif on the bench instead of Ganguly.

 

[nightprowler10]

Just thought I would this in this thread. Inzamam made 1000 runs in this year in just 8 test matches. The only other batsmen to score 1000+ runs in just 8 matches are Don Bradman (1948), Gary Sobers (1958), and Sunny Gavaskar (1978). Inetersting statistic, doesn't mean anything since others have played more than 8 tests in a calender year and made way more than a 1000 runs.

 

[Pratters]

What is the new game plan of calling opponents favourites?

 

[Pratters]

The way I see it about the ganguly-kaif issue, shifting the blame entirely on the selectors' is not right. I don't think they would have included him in the current squad if there weren't pressurized into doing it.

The system of having zonal selectors is more to blame. And the whole system of the selectors arent really independent. So in that way yes, the blame cannot just be put on the selectors. I have criticised the zonal system and system too often in the past.

So the entire issue remains of their dropping him, which I think was justified

It took 5 minutes to drop him. It took one test match to recall him. So more than going into one instance which may be right or wrong - why not look at the whole picture - ITS ALL A BIG JOKE.

Zonal selection means a selector is responsible to his zone. So he pushes for players of his own zone. It is not uncommon for selectors of varoius zones to form allegiances to push players from their zones more strongly.

However the responsibility of selectors as they are at least SAID to be an independent body officially should mean they should be able to justify their decisions. Right now all we see are contradictions like in the case of Ganguly's inconsistent treatment by the selectors.
Now with a selector and Dungarpur having a say in the final XI as well, the system has become more of a joke than ever before.

 

[Pratters]

Really? And all the bengal fans' ire and politician pressure was not of any importance?

They may have been. The question is why it should hold importance. Every state has its cricket fans.

We are choosing a national side and national interest should be kept in mind.

The fact that it isnt is a sad reality.

 

[Pratters]

If he hadn't made those big domestic scores, he wouldn't have been brought back to the national team.

What big domestic scores?

 

[Pratters]

3. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Yuvraj or Laxman

There is NO chance of Laxman to be dropped from the test team. Might as well state Yuvraj, Laxman, Dravid or Tendulkar if you are going to state Laxman.

 

[Pratters]

4. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Tendulkar
- they are going to be hanged - sorry shot dead by an execution squad in Pakistan itself - and
- their will be rejoicing in the streets of India for the killing of Ravana Chappell and
- parliamentarians will go back to the business taking bribes for asking questions in Parliament on what should be done with the bodies in Pakistan PLUS
- Kolkatans will start burning effigies and rasta rokos to have Ganguly back as captain.

And I will remain quiet you think?

 

[Sanz]

Doesn't make what happened in Kolkata right, Sanz. The people of Kolkata are seriously taking this too far. Ganguly is not good enough to be in the side, it is as simple as that. They just fail to understand that. Sure, Ganguly may be a better option than Kaif at the moment, but one has to keep the future in mind as well. I, for one, think India would have been better served with Kaif on the bench instead of Ganguly.

No one is arguing about Sourav's selection in the team (even that is debatable at best) but the way people like SJS and adharcric are making gross generalizations about people of Kolkata.

Point is would it be fair If I call Mumbaikars as goons of Shiv Sena ? Few idiots dont make people of Kolkata.

 

[Arjun]

OPEN THE BOWLING WITH DRAVID!!!

One more thread involving the Indian team goes down a similar drain.....there's so much to talk aobut Indian cricket, so why get back to this much-discussed (and much-abused) topic again?

 

[pug]

They may have been. The question is why it should hold importance. Every state has its cricket fans.

We are choosing a national side and national interest should be kept in mind.

The fact that it isnt is a sad reality.

Aaah, pratyush, you're doing a fine job hitting the nail at the right place. It really is a sad reality and I seem to recall Harsha Bhogle or someone comment about it a few years ago in espn or star sports about it and the person suggested having ex cricketers be the selectors. Although i don't see it still being all roses and rainbows but it has to be better than the current system.If we have a large panel of ex cricketers who scout the country watching domestic cricket and make suggestions and a small panel of ex cricketers making final selections, it might be better. There might be many valid objections to such a system but it will undoubtedly be better in the prime motive of getting as close to the top players representing the country. That said, I'm sure others have tried to get somethig like this and the fact that such a system is still not there means that the objections have succeeded.