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Thread: ***Official*** India in Pakistan

  1. #151
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    One good trend recently has been that the players who have been dropped have tried to force their way back through strong performances. It happened with Zaheer, Parthiv has been consistently making runs (wicketkeeping cannot be numerised as such), Balaji took wickets whenever he played, Kaif and Ganguly scored runs to get back in, and now Dinesh Kaarthick has played an awesome knock under pressure. Whatever be the selectors folly, at least the players seem to have the right attitude. That is very good to see.
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  2. #152
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasa
    Laxman has been in good form whereas Sehwag has been in poor form, so sit out Laxman and have Sehwag bat some time (although I doubt he can do that!) to get himself into form. Perhaps Ganguly for Yuvraj. When is this practice match?
    There are two objectives for this plan I suggested-
    1. Get the team ready to have five bowlers in the XI
    2. Try out both openers, though the team doesn't need Jaffer in the XI so soon.
    With such a big experiment being carried out, I've picked a near-full-strength side as cover. By the way, Ganguly, Sehwag, Parthiv and Kumble have been asked to play Ranji matches. Now all fifteen players have some practice!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Pathan/Yuvraj/Dhoni
    Agarkar
    Harbhajan
    Why Agarkar? We all know he's been useless at Test level so far. Try out young RP Singh instead– at least he's a few inches taller, and decently fast. Of course, three left-arm seamers will make the attack predictable– but there's no point picking a variation just to have one.
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  3. #153
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    There are two objectives for this plan I suggested-
    1. Get the team ready to have five bowlers in the XI
    2. Try out both openers, though the team doesn't need Jaffer in the XI so soon.
    With such a big experiment being carried out, I've picked a near-full-strength side as cover. By the way, Ganguly, Sehwag, Parthiv and Kumble have been asked to play Ranji matches. Now all fifteen players have some practice!Why Agarkar? We all know he's been useless at Test level so far. Try out young RP Singh instead– at least he's a few inches taller, and decently fast. Of course, three left-arm seamers will make the attack predictable– but there's no point picking a variation just to have one.
    With those 4 engaged in Ranji matches, the practice match XI is predictable for the most part.

    G Gambhir, W Jaffer, R Dravid*, S Tendulkar, VVS Laxman, Y Singh, MS Dhoni+, I Pathan, Z Khan, A Agarkar/RP Singh, H Singh

    I think they might opt for Agarkar in the practice match. If he performs poorly, they might replace him with RP Singh. Or they could play all 3 lefty seamers and see how RP Singh does. Who knows? I just hope RP Singh plays and takes a 5-wicket haul in every match and forces Agarkar out of the test squad for eternity. PLEASE!
    Last edited by adharcric; 27-12-2005 at 08:24 PM.

  4. #154
    pug
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    Kaif and Ganguly scored runs to get back in
    Really? And all the bengal fans' ire and politician pressure was not of any importance?


  5. #155
    pug
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush
    I am very dissapointed with the selectors.

    They in the 2nd test versus Sri Lanka played Ganguly and not Kaif in the XI. Then they dropped Ganguly after a decent performance from the squad entirely. What has Kaif or Ganguly done since then for the pecking order to change?

    If the selectors cannot answer this logically why should they remain selectors?

    Its very pathetic how players are being treated - whether its Ganguly or Kaif or any one right now. That is the major issue here.

    Dinesh Karthik is out of the team why? Dhoni was given a go for tests given his recent performances in the LOIs. So it wasnt actually some thing to do with poor performances of Karthik as we understood.

    The management has changed but Tamil Nadu players getting hard done - where is Balaji now for instance. Is Tamil Nadu weak in the vote politics? I really do not know.

    These are the stronger points of disgust for me. Many minor points are there but I do not want to address each one of them.
    The way I see it about the ganguly-kaif issue, shifting the blame entirely on the selectors' is not right. I don't think they would have included him in the current squad if there weren't pressurized into doing it. So the entire issue remains of their dropping him, which I think was justified.

  6. #156
    pug
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    Get the team ready to have five bowlers in the XI
    Do you reckon that will happen? 5 batsmen, 5 bowlers and a w/k batsman... Even with pathan playing like he is, I think its a bit risky. You can't trust Kumble, Harbhajan, Agarkar to really be consistent. And I don't see any other bowler of Pathan's batting standard. This means a tail that begins from no 8 with Dhoni and Pathan and 6 and 7. I know they have been doing wonders currently, but I still think its too soon to depend on them like we do on other batsmen.

  7. #157
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug
    Really? And all the bengal fans' ire and politician pressure was not of any importance?
    That did play A part, but it was not THE reason. If he had scored only 20s and 30s, no matter how many effigies were burnt, he wouldn't have been in the side.

  8. #158
    pug
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    Ok, I'll take your word for it. But I still think that if the selectors had been isolated in a room with a television only showing cricket - international and domestic, they would have persisted with Kaif over Ganguly.

  9. #159
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    That did play A part, but it was not THE reason. If he had scored only 20s and 30s, no matter how many effigies were burnt, he wouldn't have been in the side.
    i don't think so...it was clearly "the" reason....anything other than maybe a double bagel in delhi would've seen his comeback after all that ruckus that was created on his removal....

  10. #160
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    That did play A part, but it was not THE reason. If he had scored only 20s and 30s, no matter how many effigies were burnt, he wouldn't have been in the side.
    If he hadn't made those big domestic scores, he wouldn't have been brought back to the national team. Once he was in, it was those "fighting" scores of 39 and 40 which gave the protesters some merit after his removal for the 3rd test. His being brought back for the Pakistan series was alright because of the 'experience' factor which the selectors came up with, but the real reason for his selection was the political pressure.

    After the 2nd test, Kaif should've been dropped and Ganguly relegated to the bench. Why can't Ganguly sit on the bench? If he's ready to be "just another player", being in the squad but not in the playing XI is exactly that. One might feel sorry for Kaif, but he'll get plenty of chances in the future and he blew his chances in the 3rd test; at the time it's more important to give Ganguly his do-or-die and finish that drama.

    Now, here's the tough part. Yuvraj is clearly the better option than Ganguly, but if we don't play Ganguly in the XI, he'll remain there like a virus in the team. Something tells me we need to go with Ganguly in one of these matches and hope that he emphatically displays either his brilliance or his patheticness. He needs to establish himself as a batsman based on merit or call it a day because of his lack of performance. We've all had enough of this crap.
    Last edited by adharcric; 31-12-2005 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #161
    pug
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    Quote Originally Posted by adharcric
    If he hadn't made those big domestic scores, he wouldn't have been brought back to the national team. Once he was in, it was those "fighting" scores of 39 and 40 which gave the protesters some merit after his removal for the 3rd test. His being brought back for the Pakistan series was alright because of the 'experience' factor which the selectors came up with, but the real reason for his selection was the political pressure.

    After the 2nd test, Kaif should've been dropped and Ganguly relegated to the bench. Why can't Ganguly sit on the bench? If he's ready to be "just another player", being in the squad but not in the playing XI is exactly that. One might feel sorry for Kaif, but he'll get plenty of chances in the future and he blew his chances in the 3rd test; at the time it's more important to give Ganguly his do-or-die and finish that drama.

    Now, here's the tough part. Yuvraj is clearly the better option than Ganguly, but if we don't play Ganguly in the XI, he'll remain there like a virus in the team. Something tells me we need to go with Ganguly in one of these matches and hope that he emphatically displays either his brilliance or his patheticness. He needs to establish himself as a batsman based on merit or call it a day because of his lack of performance. We've all had enough of this crap.
    Experience factor? When you already have Sachin, Dravid, Kumble and Agarkar, you have tons of exp. And the others Laxman, Sehwag, Harbhajan, etc... have been playing test cricket for ages as well. Also, considering he might not actually be in the playing 11, why not as well get Sunil Gavaskar or Kapil Dev. I'm sure with their experience at work from the benches, the Indian side will be much better serviced. It seemed to me that this whole thing was just an excuse given to make his inclusion appear legitimate.

    You've got it all write at the third para. Thats perhaps the reason why the selectors didn't want him in the squad if he wouldn't be in the 11. I agree its important to get over with this drama but I'm afraid it wont be do-or-die for him. By rights he should have himself given or been given (worst case) a fixed time by which to retire gracefully. That much should have been done for him.

  12. #162
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug
    Do you reckon that will happen? 5 batsmen, 5 bowlers and a w/k batsman... Even with pathan playing like he is, I think its a bit risky. You can't trust Kumble, Harbhajan, Agarkar to really be consistent. And I don't see any other bowler of Pathan's batting standard. This means a tail that begins from no 8 with Dhoni and Pathan and 6 and 7. I know they have been doing wonders currently, but I still think its too soon to depend on them like we do on other batsmen.
    Frankly, that sixth batsman doesn't count. Except Sachin, Laxman, Dravid and an in-form Sehwag, NONE of the batsmen look capable of playing a long innings. None are double-century contenders. Looking at the optiosn available, they'll only get a few 40's, but no big scores. On the other hand, the Indian bowling lineup is one man short. They need that extra wicket, so that fifth bowler has to make the team.

    This is why I was pushing for the selection of a second bowler who can bat, or an all-rounder from the domestic scene. Haryana's Joginder Sharma has been taking wickets by the bucketful in Ranji matches, and has also scored two half-centuries. He's a practising all-rounder for his team, and is their leading bowler– and also a key middle-order batsman. I've said enough about Joginder on this board (bats like Kaif, bowls like Balaji, both Test contenders), and he's a good choice for the Test side– not only will he get that extra wicket, but also score vital runs in combination with Irfan– as much as the sixth batsman, or even more. Another option is Munaf Patel, that hyped tearaway who's also an effective six-hitter like Justin Kemp– but fielding and fitness are problems.

  13. #163
    School Boy/Girl Captain What-A-Player's Avatar
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    I appreciate one thing about the Indians

    They are quiet, no public comments, no cr@pinfo drama

    Paks are throwing the challenge, will work or not; who knows? but a game of 2 coaches

  14. #164
    SJS
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    Pawar/selectors/media/fans/parliamentarians/Kolkatans have bowled a googly to the Indian team mangement which is impossible to play.

    1. If they do not select Ganguly (unless someone in the middle order, Tendulkar, Yuvraj, Laxman fails in a manner to justify the change) and make him sit on the bench
    - they are going to be hanged for treating a former skipper with disrespect and
    - their effigies will be burned in Kolkata and
    - parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
    - there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games.

    2. If they select Ganguly to open the innings (this is the only spot where the other batsman - Gambhir- and his supporters cant crib)
    - they are going to be hanged for making a sacrifical goat of Ganguly and attempting to finish his career (if not get him killed by Shoaib) and
    - their effigies will be burned in Kolkata and
    - parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
    - there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games in the middle order.

    3. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Yuvraj or Laxman
    - they are going to be hanged either for discontinuing the policy of supporting youth as started by the earlier (read Ganguly+coach) management while older players(read Sachin/Laxman) are being shielded OR
    - of using a Godfatherless guy as a convenient scape goat while ageing superstars are being pampered and - their effigies will be burned in Chandigarh or Hyderabad and
    - parliament stalled in Delhi PLUS
    - there will be a clamour for him to be included in future games in the middle order.

    4. If they include Ganguly in the middle order and drop Tendulkar
    - they are going to be hanged - sorry shot dead by an execution squad in Pakistan itself - and
    - their will be rejoicing in the streets of India for the killing of Ravana Chappell and
    - parliamentarians will go back to the business taking bribes for asking questions in Parliament on what should be done with the bodies in Pakistan PLUS
    - Kolkatans will start burning effigies and rasta rokos to have Ganguly back as captain.

    Tell you what they should take disciplinary action against half the bowlers in the side and play eight batsman or better still....
    Announce that since they have been informed Pakistan has decided to make seamer friendly pitches they are going to drop all spinners and play to score heavily with
    Sehwag, Gambhir/Jaffer, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Pathan, Agarkar, Zaheer/RP

    Not bad with 'FOUR' seamers, one off spinner, one leg spinner and one left arn leg spinner.

    SUPERB !

    I think I should apply for healer/dealer/wheeler for the BCCI problems

  15. #165
    U19 Vice-Captain ClownSymonds's Avatar
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    Haha, great post, SJS. The national sport of India should be changed from wrestling to effigy burning. I'd recommend the last option you suggested - including Ganguly in the middle order and dropping Tendulkar - but I'd also make Ganguly captain. Might as well do away with the coach alltogether, too. Ganguly can fill that role as well. Plus, he is a bowling all-rounder, so there's another seamer.
    I bowl seam-ups and take the pace off the ball.

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