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Thread: Kumble vs Warne - just stats

  1. #16
    Cricketer Of The Year JASON's Avatar
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    Having watched a lot of Kumble in the last few years, my personal opinion is that he is at his best in the last 2 years and in fact he is currently ahead of Both Warne and Murali at this point in time .

    He is in my opinion the number 1 spinner in World Cricket ahead of these 2 who have dropped a lttle bit , IMO. or Batsmen have wisened up to them while Anil seems to be getting better more than ever before .

  2. #17
    Cricketer Of The Year Robertinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by no1_gangsta_786
    WoW.....i never knew the stats were so alike.....kumble is a better bowler than i thought!


    Ahh, good times.
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  3. #18
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JASON
    Having watched a lot of Kumble in the last few years, my personal opinion is that he is at his best in the last 2 years and in fact he is currently ahead of Both Warne and Murali at this point in time .

    He is in my opinion the number 1 spinner in World Cricket ahead of these 2 who have dropped a lttle bit , IMO. or Batsmen have wisened up to them while Anil seems to be getting better more than ever before .
    If batsmen have wisened up against Warne, how come he is having the best year of his career to date, with 84 wickets @ 21, and his average is lower than it has been since 1998?
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  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year JASON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    If batsmen have wisened up against Warne, how come he is having the best year of his career to date, with 84 wickets @ 21, and his average is lower than it has been since 1998?
    Thats just mostly dummy wickets against England and West Indies who are hardly reckoned as the greatest players of spin.


  5. #20
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JASON
    Thats just mostly dummy wickets against England and West Indies who are hardly reckoned as the greatest players of spin.
    While Kumble's 34 wickets @ 30 this year have come against Pakistan, Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka.

  6. #21
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Kumble's poorer reputation is based almost entirely on his abysmal record outside of India. It is extremely difficult for a bowler to gain a massive reputation similar to Warne or Murali when they do not perform often in front of the eyes of the rest of the cricketing world.

    For those who don't know them:

    Kumble in India
    52 tests, 302 wickets @ 23.38, 22 5-fors, 7 10-fors, strike rate: 56.24, economy rate: 2.49.

    Kumble outside of India
    47 tests, 176 wickets @ 36.00, 8 5-fors, 1 10-for, strike rate: 80.40, economy rate: 2.69.


    And also...

    Kumble in Australia, England, New Zealand, South Africa and the West Indies (excluding Zimbabwe and the sub-continent)
    32 tests, 115 wickets @ 38.75, 6 5-fors, 1 10-for, strike rate: 87.90, economy rate: 2.64.

    It's not too hard to see why he isn't considered by the worldwide cricket public to be in the same bracket as the others mentioned. There's also the point that Warne's stats look the worst of his career as a whole after around 100 tests, because that was at the height of his 1998-2001 form slump.

    No doubt Kumble is a great bowler, of course, and I am not attempting to discredit him, simply to explain his inferior reputation.

    Yes, he isnt as good as Warney and Murali i agree - but why dont you use precisely the same reasoning when you evaluate Lillee, given that Lillee's stuff is pretty similar - he played mostly on pitches taylor made for his type of bowling ( England and Australia) - much like Kumble's bowling is tailormade for the subcontinent and like Kumble, he failed massively out of his 'tailormade pitches' , though he played overseas far less than Kumble has and thus had the chance to protect his overall figures ??

  7. #22
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Any chance in seeing the amount of balls bowled? I find that a lot more useful than matches, in my opinon.
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  8. #23
    C_C
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    balls bowled = strike rate * number of wickets.

    Kumble = 31023
    Warne = 27425
    Murali = 32773

    Note - since it is calculated from only 1 decimal place, the margin of error could be a dozen balls, give or take.

  9. #24
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    balls bowled = strike rate * number of wickets.

    Kumble = 31023
    Warne = 27425
    Murali = 32773

    Note - since it is calculated from only 1 decimal place, the margin of error could be a dozen balls, give or take.
    *slaps head*

    Of course, thanks for that

  10. #25
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc
    *slaps head*

    Of course, thanks for that
    Yer welcome, mate.

  11. #26
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Yes, he isnt as good as Warney and Murali i agree - but why dont you use precisely the same reasoning when you evaluate Lillee, given that Lillee's stuff is pretty similar - he played mostly on pitches taylor made for his type of bowling ( England and Australia) - much like Kumble's bowling is tailormade for the subcontinent and like Kumble, he failed massively out of his 'tailormade pitches' , though he played overseas far less than Kumble has and thus had the chance to protect his overall figures ??
    I was actually talking about Kumble's reputation, and not his quality as a bowler, but yes I do think that Kumble is a lesser bowler because of his inability to adapt to unfamiliar conditions. Lillee rarely played in the subcontinent, and therefore cannot be judged on it any more than Murali can be judged on his performances in Australia.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    I was actually talking about Kumble's reputation, and not his quality as a bowler, but yes I do think that Kumble is a lesser bowler because of his inability to adapt to unfamiliar conditions. Lillee rarely played in the subcontinent, and therefore cannot be judged on it any more than Murali can be judged on his performances in Australia.
    But the fact remains - Kumble is good only in the subcontinent and Lillee is good only on bouncy wickets. Lack of experience doesnt necessarily negate the requirement of performing overseas. You can fail two ways - either with an 'F' or 'Did not write the exam'

    Kumble is ordinary outside the subcontinent,Lillee is questionable bowler when not bowling on conditions that suit him. Murali example is a bit off because Murali has bad record in only one country that is non-subcontinental in its nature as opposed to Lillee who has zilch on his resume on any subcontinental pitch.

  13. #28
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    You act as if there are only two kids of pitches in the world - subcontinental pitches and non-subcontinental pitches. Generally speaking, swing bowlers prosper more in Pakistan than Australia, as Australia has conditions conducive to swing bowling less often, and also less often than England, South Africa, New Zealand etc. Australia has much faster and bouncier wickets than in England, while English conditions offer more for medium pacers and bowlers who rely on significant movement off the pitch or in the air.

    Indian wickets are different from Pakistani ones, and Australian wickets are different from English ones. This is obvious not only through actual observation of the games there, but in the types of bowlers that come out of those countries, the types of bowlers which dominate in domestic cricket and so on. The point is that Kumble has never had significant success outside of India. While he does a bit better in the spin-friendly conditions of Sri Lanka and Pakistan than in say England or Australia, he simply doesn't succeed away from home very often at all. Lillee, of course, did.

  14. #29
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Ravi Shastri says– "Kumble may have a higher average, but think of the bowlers he's had for support. If he had McGrath or Gillespie for support, he would have performed a lot better."
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  15. #30
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    You act as if there are only two kids of pitches in the world - subcontinental pitches and non-subcontinental pitches. Generally speaking, swing bowlers prosper more in Pakistan than Australia, as Australia has conditions conducive to swing bowling less often, and also less often than England, South Africa, New Zealand etc. Australia has much faster and bouncier wickets than in England, while English conditions offer more for medium pacers and bowlers who rely on significant movement off the pitch or in the air.

    Indian wickets are different from Pakistani ones, and Australian wickets are different from English ones. This is obvious not only through actual observation of the games there, but in the types of bowlers that come out of those countries, the types of bowlers which dominate in domestic cricket and so on. The point is that Kumble has never had significant success outside of India. While he does a bit better in the spin-friendly conditions of Sri Lanka and Pakistan than in say England or Australia, he simply doesn't succeed away from home very often at all. Lillee, of course, did.
    No, swing bowling doesnt prosper more in Pakistan than Australia. Pakistan has just produced a few exponents of swing bowling, but the overall median averages and figures show that Australia is far more conductive to swing bowling than Pakistan.

    Pitches can be categorised broadly into two kinds : Subcontinental pitches and non subcontinental pitches.
    And this division is largely in nature of pitches - pitches in WI/RSA/AUS/NZ/ENG are far closer to each other than any on the subcontinent and vice versa.

    Lillee succeeds away from home simply because he gets far more 'home-like' conditions away from home, such as England - English wickets are far more 'aussie-esque' than any subcontinental wickets in relation to non-subcontinental wickets.

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