Cricket Betting Site Betway
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48

Thread: Husseys Struggle at test level.....

  1. #31
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    6,462
    Quote Originally Posted by howardj
    Well, the argument is - particularly when you bat in the middle-order in ODI's - that not outs are more the result of the overs running out, than they are of the batsman defying the bowling attack. I mean Hussey, coming in as he usually does at six or seven, faces a max of about 15-20 overs. It's hardly extraordinary, or down to his ability to defy all comers, that he remains unconquered at the end of the innings..
    I don't understand this.

    If a player averaged 150 because he came out and scored 150 every time, it would be amazing.

    However, Hussey is making 150 runs whilst only being dismissed once over the course of approximately 4 innings. That's 4 times he has to come in and get his eye in, 4 times he has to get used to the pitch, 4 times he has to adjust to the bowlers, and he's done all this with a strike rate in the 90s!

    While there are also arguments the other way (fatigue, perhaps) I actually think it's easier to argue that accumulating an impressive average with a lot of not outs is MORE impressive than accumulating an impressive average with few not outs.

  2. #32
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    6,462
    This point is further proved by the fact that a vast majority of lower order ODI players have lower averages than they might otherwise achieve for the very reasons just outlined.

  3. #33
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    13,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Slats4ever
    umm so therefore when he's not out he shuld be classed as out? .
    umm where did i say that? oh thats right, i didnt. you just thought youd make it up to try and make your argument sound better.

  4. #34
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    13,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Slats4ever
    I think that it's stupid to suggest that the fact that he has been not out so many times detracts from his record.
    i didnt say that either. just that it gives - particularly in ODI cricket where the overs are limited - an inflated picture of his ability. tho, as i acknowledged, he has performed extremely well.


  5. #35
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    13,755
    Quote Originally Posted by sqwerty

    Any argument that suggests that not outs should be disregarded in working out averages should be dismissed without a second thought.
    I didnt say that. Im just saying that they can give an inaccurate picture of a batsman's abilities. For instance, do you think - going on averages - that Hussey is three times the player that Gilchrist is? I don't think so.

    As Ive acknowledged, that's not to Hussey hasnt performed magnificently in his particular role.

  6. #36
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Nursing a broken ****ing arm
    Posts
    5,702
    Is it Hussey's fault that nobody can get him out?!
    "The Australian cricket captain is the Prime Minister Australia wishes it had. Steve Waugh is that man, Michael Clarke is not." - Jarrod Kimber

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi and Craig Walsh - true icons of CricketWeb.

  7. #37
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    England
    Posts
    63,103
    Quote Originally Posted by sqwerty
    What an absurd statement.

    Who cares what anyone's 'innings' average is. It's totally I R R E L E V A N T.
    As is an average when a batsman has been dismissed so few times.
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  8. #38
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Is this CricketWeb's greatest poster in the short history of the forum?
    Posts
    37,158
    By pure definition, the term 'average' relates to how many runs a player makes per dismissal, not per innings, so you cant change what an 'average' is based on because it then wouldnt be an 'average' at all. Its just the way it is, no matter how inaccurate it can be in measuring a players ability.
    Parmi | #1 draft pick | Jake King is **** | Big Bash League tipping champion of the universe
    Come and Paint Turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.

  9. #39
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
    Burger Time Champion!
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    24,437
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00
    By pure definition, the term 'average' relates to how many runs a player makes per dismissal, not per innings, so you cant change what an 'average' is based on because it then wouldnt be an 'average' at all. Its just the way it is, no matter how inaccurate it can be in measuring a players ability.
    The term 'average' was not created by cricketers. Average is a mathematical term which means: A number that typifies a set of numbers of which it is a function.

    This means you could apply average to per innings or per out/dismissal.
    Cricketweb Colts Captain



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Hayden > Lehmann
    I'm a member of Club Kerry

    I'm Green

    The color of immortality, nature and envy - you are truly a unique person. While clearly the color of nature, you also symbolize rebirth, fertility and hope in the world. On the other side of the spectrum, a natural aptitude to money with green coming to signify money and possibly even *********!

  10. #40
    Cricket Spectator - 1st Warning Maison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia - Perth
    Posts
    126
    ffs.

    well put it this way, imo, if Hussey batted at the top of the order (for example), and had time to bat for the whole 50 overs, he'd have 100+ runs everytime he bats.

    yay, enough said :P

    lol
    ""They haunt me, and defy me. For some, it's always how many.. but for me, its always, just one more"" - Justin Langer, Keep Walking ;)

  11. #41
    State Vice-Captain ohtani's jacket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Slats4ever
    ummm try making your argument...
    Let me preface this by saying that I don't really care about ODI averages, since the onus is on how well the team bats; I just think an argument can be made.

    In limited overs cricket, both innings are completed, therefore whether Hussey is out or not is irrelevant -- once the final ball is delivered, he can no longer score runs. It doesn't matter whether a side are bowled out before the 50th over, or reach the target with overs to spare, the opportunity to make a higher score is gone.

    Obviously 20* in a successful chase is different from being dismissed for 20, but the boost that not outs give to an average isn't a reward for good batting -- it's a result of the average being calculated by runs per dismissal, instead of runs per innings.

    Innings average isn't a foolproof method -- Hussey has made scores such as 0* without facing a ball & 1* with two balls remaining, scores that would hurt his average if they were counted as complete innings; nevertheless, an innings average of 43.14 (disregarding the 0*) gives a far greater indication of his average than 151.00.

    In time his average won't be so astronomical, but for now it's a strange quirk.

    In other sports where average scores are significant (eg. basketball), it's a simple matter of points scored divided by games played, despite endless variables (minutes played, foul trouble, shots per game, etc.)

    Admittedly, basketball players have at least 48 minutes to score, whereas Hussey might have two balls, but if innings average were the norm, perhaps strike rate would become a more significant stat in the way that field goal percentage is in basketball.

    So I can understand if people think not outs discriminate between batsmen who have the opportunity to remain not out and those, who in all likelihood, don't.

    There's no concessions made for the bowlers.

  12. #42
    U19 Cricketer sqwerty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by howardj
    I didnt say that. Im just saying that they can give an inaccurate picture of a batsman's abilities. For instance, do you think - going on averages - that Hussey is three times the player that Gilchrist is? I don't think so.

    As Ive acknowledged, that's not to Hussey hasnt performed magnificently in his particular role.
    I don't think you can judge any player on their average after just a handful of matches. But if he is averaging 150 after hitting 5000 test runs then there is a fair argument to say yes he is 3 times better than Gilchrist.

  13. #43
    U19 Cricketer sqwerty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    As is an average when a batsman has been dismissed so few times.
    Unless you've scored thousands of runs

  14. #44
    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    liverpool
    Posts
    4,066
    Those people campaigning for not-outs not to count in averages,let me ask you this,does anyone on this forum honestly think that Hussey will average 150 after 4 years? Or that his average truly reflects how good he is?

    Hussey has performed fantasticly well since he became an international cricketer,and we should leave it at that.

  15. #45
    Cricket Spectator - 1st Warning Maison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia - Perth
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by open365
    Those people campaigning for not-outs not to count in averages,let me ask you this,does anyone on this forum honestly think that Hussey will average 150 after 4 years? Or that his average truly reflects how good he is?

    Hussey has performed fantasticly well since he became an international cricketer,and we should leave it at that.
    done and done!

    i doubt he will avg. 100+ in ODI, but who knows

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. CW XI Test History
    By Mr Mxyzptlk in forum Statistics and Records
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 29-11-2007, 06:34 AM
  2. ***Official*** Sri Lanka in India
    By James in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 1454
    Last Post: 30-12-2005, 03:15 PM
  3. Do you know that!
    By cricket player in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 210
    Last Post: 22-06-2005, 04:42 AM
  4. Which Team Has The Most Allrounder's????
    By cricket player in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 09-12-2004, 09:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •