Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Protection for Flintoff and Obituaries for Udal !!

  1. #1
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,261

    Protection for Flintoff and Obituaries for Udal !!

    This article by David Hopps in today's Guardian suggests that Flintoff needed protection and it should have been obvious to the English skipper during the futile (for England) day in the field as Pakistani batsmen were piling on the agony.

    He also suggests in the same argument that Udal "should have bowled most of the morning merely to spare Flintoff and, if he had kept disappearing into the crowd, he should have been told to bowl some more. "....

    and that........ "for England's sole spinner to manage 18 overs out of 156.2 on such a benign surface should have automatically ruled him out of next year's tour to India"

    Is this really true ?......not just in the context of this game/series but in the overall context of Flintoff's career and of other star performers like him in various international teams.?

    AND does Udal's handling suggest a lack of confidence in that bowler to the extent to preclude any future England duties ?

  2. #2
    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
    Hexxagon Champion!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Navi Mumbai , India
    Posts
    5,974
    Personally I'm more bothered about whether Giles will be back in India with a second installment of his negative line of bowling... wouldnt want test cricket to die out here ..
    Millhouse: you know when your dog ate my goldfish bart and you told me i never had a goldfish, then why did i have the bowl bart! why did i have the bowl!!!!
    Karthik_moo@hotmail.com
    Member of the MSC and the AAAS
    Wanna Search ?
    Waughney : We are well taken care of here at the Rehab centre.

  3. #3
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja moo
    Personally I'm more bothered about whether Giles will be back in India with a second installment of his negative line of bowling... wouldnt want test cricket to die out here ..
    I doubt if he will bowl negative this time around His handling by Vaughan has been examplary and Giles' response has shown what great dis-service Nasser hussain did to this fine bowler when he used him in that role.

    But I am wondering if champion cricketers like Flintoff are that fragile as to need protection. Sure, Udal could have bowled more but I am not convinced that Freddie should have been 'hidden' when the batsmen were on a rampage. If all sides/captains started doing that (unless a player is injured or indisposed) we would deprive the game of some of its greatest moments viz. the spaectacular performances that 'champion' cricketers will squeeze out of themselves in the most demanding circumstances. It is this that entitles them to that title in the first place.

  4. #4
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    15,695
    Sure, we will now just protect Lara by making him bat only when the twirlers and the trundlers are bowling. Same with Sachin. And we will protect Shoaib by getting him to bowl only at tailenders. Same with Warney, McGrath and Murali.
    We miss you, Fardin. :(. RIP.
    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
    A cricket supporter forever

    Member of CW Red and AAAS - Appreciating only the best.


    Check out this awesome e-fed:

    PWE Efed


  5. #5
    International 12th Man
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,746
    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    Sure, we will now just protect Lara by making him bat only when the twirlers and the trundlers are bowling. Same with Sachin. And we will protect Shoaib by getting him to bowl only at tailenders. Same with Warney, McGrath and Murali.
    I'm not sure that was the point - the article was not referring to protecting his confidence, it was about protecting his body.

  6. #6
    International Coach social's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    12,441
    By all means rest Freddie from another meaningless one-day series, but to suggest that he should be "protected" (or whatever term was used in this article) in the middle of a test match is nonsense. That's a loser's attitude if ever there was one.

    Imagine Warne or McGrath's response if Ponting was ever stupid enough to suggest that they take a spell because he wanted to rest them up for a series starting in 4 months.

  7. #7
    International 12th Man
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,746
    Quote Originally Posted by social
    By all means rest Freddie from another meaningless one-day series, but to suggest that he should be "protected" (or whatever term was used in this article) in the middle of a test match is nonsense. That's a loser's attitude if ever there was one.

    Imagine Warne or McGrath's response if Ponting was ever stupid enough to suggest that they take a spell because he wanted to rest them up for a series starting in 4 months.
    The point was not to rest him but not to flog him into the ground, because of other bowlers inadequacies. The article was specifically referring to a situation where (in its opinion) bowling was to all extents meaningless. England were just waiting for a declaration, with the series lost. There is also an argument that overbowling him could impact negatively on his batting. He got a golden duck. And whether you think he should be rested from the one-day series or not, the fact is that he is playing in it. So we might as well have him in the best possible condition for it - after all it would be a bit stupid if he picked up an injury in the one-dayers as a knock on consequence of being overbowled in the tests. The quid pro quo of overbowling Flintoff when we need him (a la fourth morning at the Oval) is that others should pick up the slack when we don't.

  8. #8
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mumbai, India
    Posts
    8,365
    Eveyone needs a little protection once in a while, but England were so woefully out of options, that thay needed Flintoff to bowl a lot more than he could.
    "Talent is nothing without opportunity"
    "You're not remembered for aiming at the target, but hitting it"

    Twenty20 used to be boring.

    Sponsored...by...nothing!!!

  9. #9
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    716
    Hell if you think that's bad sky sports showed how beefy bowled as much as flintoff in a test match, and then had to turn out to county matches for somerset and still bowl his lion's share.

    Udal unfortunley has showed just how useless most finger-spin is nowadays away from huge-turning Pitches, and that you can't bowl teams out anymore with just off-breaks and the arm ball (which is useless if the ball isn't turning).

    Still think loudon should have had a go and seen if any of his variations troubled the batsmen.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
    Breakout Champion!
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    ****ing cold and ****ing wet
    Posts
    17,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Udal unfortunley has showed just how useless most finger-spin is nowadays away from huge-turning Pitches
    No, he's showed how useless he is.

  11. #11
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    No, he's showed how useless he is.
    Name another fingerspinner who has in the last 5 years troubled good batsmen away from big-turning pitches in tests.

  12. #12
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    15,695
    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    I'm not sure that was the point - the article was not referring to protecting his confidence, it was about protecting his body.
    Then you should use him ONLY when the going gets tough, not when the going is easy, when someone else can do the job and Freddie can take a bit of a rest at fine leg or somewhere.

  13. #13
    International 12th Man
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,746
    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    Then you should use him ONLY when the going gets tough, not when the going is easy, when someone else can do the job and Freddie can take a bit of a rest at fine leg or somewhere.
    I don't really understand you're point. We're talking about the situation where Pakistan were on 500+ and England were just waiting for a declaration.

  14. #14
    Global Moderator nightprowler10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Madhouse on Madison
    Posts
    14,215
    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Name another fingerspinner who has in the last 5 years troubled good batsmen away from big-turning pitches in tests.
    Over the span of 5 years, not many. But once in a few tests, Malik and Arshad Khan.

  15. #15
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Name another fingerspinner who has in the last 5 years troubled good batsmen away from big-turning pitches in tests.
    Dont know about last five year stuff but considering the gradual demise of the specialist spinner (yes yes one has heard of Warne and Murali), I think one can think of many occasions when Harbhajan, Saqlain (of course Muralitharan) and even Giles and Vettori have troubled batsmen on wickets that cant be termed as "big-turners".

    On dead wickets, finger spinners are not the only one's that look less effective all types of bowlers can.

    I think Udal, even in these times of dwindling spinning resources around the world, doesnt impress as being anywhere except at the lower rungs of that line.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •