*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[luckyeddie]

and his wrong un was quality also.... warne appears to be at the top of his game

It really surprised me just how well-disguised his googly is now. The flipper isn't, of course, but it's on to the batsman before they can do a thing.

The only ball in his repertoire he didn't use was the bouncer ( ).

 

[Hazza]

The only ball in his repertoire he didn't use was the bouncer ( ).

I remember Warne bowling a bouncer in the Ashes. I think it was near the end of the first test...

...Is there anything he can't bowl?

 

[SJS]

It really surprised me just how well-disguised his googly is now. The flipper isn't, of course, but it's on to the batsman before they can do a thing.
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Strange how so many people noticed his googly at the same time. It was very obvious the improvement. But I would like to see him throw it up and let the batsmen go for an expansive drive or play for a leg break for the ball to turn in through the gate and bowl him.

I have seen so many leg spinners do it at different levels and it is a fascinating site but never from Warne. Maybe it is the one reason that makes me rate him lower than other great leg spinners from Australia. Also the fact that he bowls so much on and outside the leg stump. Really great leg spinners attack the off stump line challenging the batsmen to drive them.

There is something negative about Warne's line. But there is a massive improvement this year.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He did throw his googly up today. Apparently MacGill (who does bowl a very good wrong'un) has been helping him with it in the nets, it was certainly much improved, because since his shoulder injury, it's been relatively easy to pick.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

One of the most impressive things about Warne, and it's true of many great bowlers, is that he hasn't let his injuries ruin his effectiveness, aside from one or two very short periods. Similar to Dennis Lillee, who was of course incredibly effective as a tearaway quick, and came back from a terrible back injury and if anything became even better than he was before, despite having a different action and less pace.

Warne lost the ability to bowl his wrong'un (never his strong point really) and his flipper (which certainly was an asset) because of his injuries, but through hard work as well as his stunningly accurate leg break and general intelligence as a bowler he managed to remain effective. With his brilliant form since his return from his drug ban and the fact that his variation balls appear to be coming back to him, he really is getting his invincible aura back.

 

[chaminda_00]

I remember Warne bowling a bouncer in the Ashes. I think it was near the end of the first test...

...Is there anything he can't bowl?

Doosra, off break, arm ball, out swinger, in swinger, off cutter, he could probably bowl a leg cutter though.

 

[Pratters]

Strange how so many people noticed his googly at the same time. It was very obvious the improvement. But I would like to see him throw it up and let the batsmen go for an expansive drive or play for a leg break for the ball to turn in through the gate and bowl him.

I have seen so many leg spinners do it at different levels and it is a fascinating site but never from Warne. Maybe it is the one reason that makes me rate him lower than other great leg spinners from Australia. Also the fact that he bowls so much on and outside the leg stump. Really great leg spinners attack the off stump line challenging the batsmen to drive them.

There is something negative about Warne's line. But there is a massive improvement this year.

Being a leggie and a huge fan of the art, I HAVE to defend Warne.

Wanre does throw it up. Warne does bowl balls above the batsman's eye. The thing which is different for Warne than other leggies is his line. While most pitch off stump and away, Warne pitches on the leg and middle. It means that despite lofting the balls, the line is so vicious that the batsmen do not go for the attack. Add to that the control of Warne. Some thing which always amazes me.

Regarding the negative line of Warne, it is not negative as he doesnt bowl balls which batsmen cannot hit. Sidhu and Tendulkar succeeded against that very same line. It is far from it. It is a very attacking line in fact. Leg spin is an attacking art and not a defensive one like most spinning arts are. The line of Warne makes it much more attacking. Against other leggies, if you miss the ball, it goes to the keeper. Against Warne, you can be bowled or lbw.

Try bowling the normal leg spinner's line and Warne's line. Warne's line will put the batsmen much more in the spot. But that line also means that you have very little room for error. A small lack in accuracy would mean a lollipop ball usually to be despatched for four. Only the super accurate can bowl the line Warne bowls - making leg spin more attacking than it is usually.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The statsguru comparisons I provide list region wise break up as well if you are interested.

Cheers for that - is there any way using StatsGuru you can take both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe out? I seem only to be able to take 1 out.

 

[Tom Halsey]

There is something negative about Warne's line.

Not really. Warne really flights it up usually (look at speeds today) and is usually around leg-stump (although there are a few outside leg which can be padded away). This means it isn't easy to leave him usually.

 

[Pratters]

Cheers for that - is there any way using StatsGuru you can take both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe out? I seem only to be able to take 1 out.

I havent found a way. And I find stats guru to be a limited resource. There are so many different things I want to try out but do not the options. It is a good start though and I hope it develops further.

 

[Tom Halsey]

One of the most impressive things about Warne, and it's true of many great bowlers, is that he hasn't let his injuries ruin his effectiveness, aside from one or two very short periods. Similar to Dennis Lillee, who was of course incredibly effective as a tearaway quick, and came back from a terrible back injury and if anything became even better than he was before, despite having a different action and less pace.

Warne lost the ability to bowl his wrong'un (never his strong point really) and his flipper (which certainly was an asset) because of his injuries, but through hard work as well as his stunningly accurate leg break and general intelligence as a bowler he managed to remain effective. With his brilliant form since his return from his drug ban and the fact that his variation balls appear to be coming back to him, he really is getting his invincible aura back.

Just watched the highlights of today, he was absolutely unplayable, quite brilliant.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I havent found a way. And I find stats guru to be a limited resource. There are so many different things I want to try out but do not the options. It is a good start though and I hope it develops further.

OK, cheers.

 

[SJS]

Wanre does throw it up. Warne does bowl balls above the batsman's eye.

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I was only referring to the wrong one.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He threw that up even more (today at least).

 

[Pratters]

Just watched the highlights of today, he was absolutely unplayable, quite brilliant.

Warne is bowling the best in his career in my opinion.

 

[SJS]

Not really. Warne really flights it up usually (look at speeds today) and is usually around leg-stump (although there are a few outside leg which can be padded away). This means it isn't easy to leave him usually.

Oh you cant leave a leg spinner who pitches on the leg stump AND bowls a well disguised wrong one with the same trajectory(more or less as the leg break) without risking being bowled. . One has seen batsmen leaving Qadir's delivery pitching outside the off stump and being bowled.

As for defensive, its a fact that driving a leg spinner pitching outside the leg stump is BLOODY difficult. The fact that Sachin (one season really) and Laxman did it doesnt make it an easy shot to play. Its bt far the most difficult of front foot strokes and thats why few batsmen attempt it. While many will go for driving what looks like a juicy half volley on the off stump.

But I agree, if it works for Warne, why shouldnt he bowl a leg stump line.

 

[Top_Cat]

I have seen so many leg spinners do it at different levels and it is a fascinating site but never from Warne. Maybe it is the one reason that makes me rate him lower than other great leg spinners from Australia. Also the fact that he bowls so much on and outside the leg stump. Really great leg spinners attack the off stump line challenging the batsmen to drive them.

I've see you say this before and it's still not true. There's a reason why they're called 'leg-spinners'. Every leggie I've ever seen, face or watched in person, Aussie or not, has attacked leg-stump or just outside.

I mean seriously, with the amount of turn Warnie puts on the ball, what do you think would happen if he went for an off-stump line? Batsmen would just keep missing him. What use would a spin-bowler who does that be? It's not as if Warne only bowls batsmen or has them LBW with the straight ones; he induces plenty of edges to slip and close-catchers on the off-side. For inducing drives, Warne does it plenty of times with his 'defensive' line.

Defensive? Please. Warne is sometimes far too aggressive. In his desire to rip the ball through batsmen, he sometimes forgets to go for the more traditional miscue to the in-field that most spinners aim for at least 60% of their wickets. This, in my opinion, is part of the reason for his lack of success on India in much the same way as Lillee in Pakistan; far too used to seeing the ball pop and fizz so they bowl accordingly with less patience than is demanded on the slower-turners in those countries.

 

[SJS]

He threw that up even more (today at least).

Yes thats true.
He did throw his wrong one more in the air and I think thats why it got noticed by so many people as an effective felivery.

It is interesting, the comment that he has been working with MacGill on this. Great.

He did bowl his flippers short although he still got one wicket with it as i was watching

 

[Pratters]

I've see you say this before and it's still not true. There's a reason why they're called 'leg-spinners'. Every leggie I've ever seen, face or watched in person, Aussie or not, has attacked leg-stump or just outside.

Warne's line is a little different than that of most leg spinners. Much more attacking as I mentioned before.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Flippers are meant to be short though - it's meant to get the batsman into a cut shot and then skid straight on and have him trapped lbw or bowled.