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Thread: *Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

  1. #31
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Warne has said himself he prefers to get bounce rather than excessive turn, I've read him say that a few times and it was mentioned today by one of the commentators. So like Jack said, the whole "Warne bowls better on Australian and non sub-continent wickets" doesn't fly at all.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

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  2. #32
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
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    My much debated analysis belongs in this thread.

    Points in Favour of Murali

    1) Warne has failed dismally against the best players of spin – India (43 wickets at 47.18). Murali has done far better against them (51 wickets at 32.94).

    2) Murali has a better average, strike rate, economy rate, and takes more wickets per match than Warne; despite the fact that Warne has not had to play against the world's best team.

    3) Murali has a better record against all countries, except South Africa and Pakistan.

    4) Murali is far more consistent. Warne has been known to be hammered occasionally and although Murali has previously been nullified to a degree, he is very rarely hit around the park.

    Warne
    45 7 150 1 3.33 3rd Test v Ind in Aus 1991/92 at Sydney
    30 7 122 1 4.07 1st Test v Ind in Ind 1997/98 at Chennai
    42 4 147 0 3.50 2nd Test v Ind in Ind 1997/98 at Kolkata
    34 3 152 1 4.47 2nd Test v Ind in Ind 2000/01 at Kolkata
    42 7 140 2 3.33 3rd Test v Ind in Ind 2000/01 at Chennai
    30 6 108 2 3.60 3rd Test v SA in SA 2001/02 at Durban
    38 7 129 3 3.39 2nd Test v SL in Aus 2004 at Cairns
    32 4 115 2 3.59 1st Test v Ind in Ind 2004/2005 at Nagpur

    Murali
    36 6 123 1 3.42 1 L 1st Test v Pak in SL 1994 at Colombo
    54 3 224 2 4.15 2 L 1st Test v Aus in Aus 1995/96 at Perth
    33 6 136 0 4.12 1 L 1st Test v NZ in NZ 1996/97 at Dunedin

    5) Warne is part of a stronger bowling attack. If Warne was of equal ability to Murali he would take less wickets per match than Murali (because there are four good bowlers competing for wickets), but would have a lower average and strike rate (because greater pressure is put on the batsman by bowlers at the other end). For an example of this take two great fast bowlers, Marshall and Hadlee - Marshall having a better average because the high class West Indian bowlers put greater pressure on the batsmen, but Hadlee took more wickets per match because there was less competition for them. Same with Lindwall vs Bedser, Ambrose vs Akram, Laker vs Tayfield, and many, many others. Murali takes more wickets per match and has a lower average and strike rate.

    6) A high proportion of Warne's test wickets are numbers 10 and 11 in the batting order; Murali does well against all batting positions. When they were both on 527 wickets, Warne had taken the wickets of batsmen 8-11 190 times, Murali had done it 162 times - a significant difference of 17%. And we all know it is far more valuable to be able to defeat players of high ability, because they can really make you suffer. Tailenders will usually get out sooner rather than later anyway, and very rarely turn a match on its head (with the bat anyway). What’s the point in Warne taking the wickets of Nehra or Walsh game after game, if he cannot trouble Tendulkar or Lara?

    7) Although Warne has been less effective since his shoulder injury, even at his peak (1993-97) he was not as good as Murali has been this century.

    Mat O M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
    Murali 2000-2003 37 2347.3 684 4990 258 19.34 9-51 22 10 54.5 2.13
    Warne 1993-97 57 2876.5 938 6457 277 23.31 8-71 11 3 62.3 2.24

    8) Murali on top form is more devastating than Warne on top form.

    Best innings:

    9/51 M Muralitharan v Zimbabwe at Kandy, 2nd Test, 2001/02 [1583]
    9/65 M Muralitharan v England at The Oval, Only Test, 1998 [1423]
    8/71 SK Warne v England at Brisbane, 1st Test, 1994/95
    8/87 M Muralitharan v India at Colombo (SSC), 3rd Test, 2001 [1559]

    Best Series:

    Murali
    Sri Lanka in Pakistan, 1999/00 [Series]
    3 213.1 516 26 6/71 19.84 2.42 49.1 1 1
    South Africa in Sri Lanka, 2000 [Series]
    3 227.4 480 26 7/84 18.46 2.10 52.5 3 1
    Zimbabwe in Sri Lanka, 2001/02 [Series]
    3 203.1 294 30 9/51 9.80 1.44 40.6 2 1
    England in Sri Lanka, 2003/04 [Series]
    3 231.4 320 26 7/46 12.30 1.38 53.4 1 1
    Australia in Sri Lanka, 2003/04 [Series]
    3 209.1 649 28 6/59 23.17 3.10 44.8 4 1

    Warne
    The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 1993 [Series]
    6 439.5 877 34 5/82 25.79 1.99 77.6 1 0
    The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in Australia, 1994/95 [Series]
    5 256.1 549 27 8/71 20.33 2.14 56.9 2 1
    The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2001 [Series]
    5 195.2 580 31 7/165 18.70 2.96 37.8 3 1
    Australia v Pakistan Test Series in Sri Lanka/U.A.E., 2002/03 [Series]
    3 124 342 27 7/94 12.66 2.75 27.5 2 1
    Australia in Sri Lanka, 2003/04 [Series]
    3 168 521 26 5/43 20.03 3.10 38.7 4 2
    The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
    5 252.5 797 40 6/46 12/246 19.92 3.15 37.9 3 2


    9) You could take a look at their respective records in the English county championship (note Murali was by far the star bowler in every season he played, while several Hampshire bowlers took wickets more cheaply than Warne in all his seasons):

    Mat B M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
    Murali 25 7695 391 2735 185 14.78 7-39 21 6 41.5 2.13
    Warne 36 8423 323 3858 162 23.81 6-34 9 0 51.9 2.74

    10) One reason why Warne is rated so highly is Gatting’s reaction to the so called “ball of the century.” The shock that that ball sent through the cricketing world was immense because it was thought no one else could bowl that delivery. Actually, Warne was not the only one to bowl such a delivery in recent years, Abdul Qadir had bowled the same delivery a few years earlier, it just wasn’t highlighted at the time because it wasn't on such a big stage. Murali bowled similar balls which were every bit as good to both Sadgapan Ramesh and Mark Butcher a few years ago.

    Warne constantly gets so many accolades/awards that he doesn't deserve, purely through a God like reputation galvanised by ill educated media hype. In truth, his career has been highly inconsistent, he has constantly failed against the best, benefited from the opportunity to nail tails after McGrath and co have dismissed the better batsmen, and his overall career figures fall short of the truely great category.

    Points in Favour of Warne

    1) Has much greater competition for wickets, and yet still has more victims than any other Test bowler in history.

    2) Has not had the opportunity to destroy Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. Murali has taken over a fifth of his wickets against these teams while Warne has played a combined total of 2 matches against them.

    3) Has a better average and strike rate outside Sri Lanka than Murali.

    4) Recognised by the (biased) Anglo-Australian media as the best spinner of all times.

    5) At his peak he had more variation than Murali.

    6) He has a better record away from home than Murali.

    7) Does not get the opportunity to play half his matches on dustbowls.

    Conclusion: Murali > Warne
    viriya likes this.
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  3. #33
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Why don't we just sticky this for all time, so that everyone can see it and arguments about this issue from other threads can be redirected easily.
    We miss you, Fardin. :(. RIP.
    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  4. #34
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaib
    Shoaib Akhtar,Sarfaraz Nawaz,Sikander Bakht [/B][/COLOR]

    hehehehee
    rave down, hit the ground


    MSN: djjacksono@hotmail.com


  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Ponting
    Warne cause hes the only bowler out of the two.


    I could easily say "Murali because he's the only man"

  6. #36
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Good decision by the staff to allow discussion to occur, even if it is tedious. Freedom of discussion is nice.

    Anyway, to start off this thread:

    Nicky Boje > Warne & Murali

    That's right
    Don't be stupid. Dave Mohammed >>> Daniel Vettori > Killer Harbhajan > Gary Keedy >>>>>>>> Nicky Boje> Warne & Murali >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shaun Udal is more like it.

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra
    My much debated analysis belongs in this thread......
    Come on now, CW members. Admit it.

    Who actually READ AMZ's little post?

    Seriously, it IS very good, and contains much food for thought.
    Nigel Clough's Black and White Army, beating Forest away with 10 men

  8. #38
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    Come on now, CW members. Admit it.

    Who actually READ AMZ's little post?
    I didn't, and that's why.

  9. #39
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Murali vs Warne comparisons with the help of stats guru:

    Code:
    6 ball overs)       Mat    O       R   W   BBI    BBM     Ave  Econ    SR  5 10
    
    Warne
    Murali
    
    overall              129 6023.3 15746 629  8/71  12/128  25.03  2.61  57.4 32 10
                          96 5370.1 12632 568  9/51  16/220  22.23  2.35  56.7 47 14
    
    v Australia            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                          11  569.3  1728  55  6/59  11/212  31.41  3.03  62.1  5  1
    v Bangladesh           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           4  143.1   344  34  6/18  10/98   10.11  2.40  25.2  5  2
    v England             31 1551.3  3837 172  8/71  12/246  22.30  2.47  54.1 10  4
                          10  768.3  1431  69  9/65  16/220  20.73  1.86  66.8  4  2
    v ICC World XI         1   31      71   6  3/23   6/71   11.83  2.29  31.0  0  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    v India               14  654.1  2029  43  6/125  6/113  47.18  3.10  91.2  1  0
                          12  637    1680  51  8/87  11/196  32.94  2.63  74.9  3  1
    v New Zealand         20  961.4  2511 103  6/31   9/67   24.37  2.61  56.0  3  0
                          10  536    1232  52  5/30   9/227  23.69  2.29  61.8  4  0
    v Pakistan            15  675.1  1816  90  7/23  11/77   20.17  2.68  45.0  6  2
                          12  623.5  1622  68  6/71  10/148  23.85  2.60  55.0  4  1
    v South Africa        18 1021.4  2257 101  7/56  12/128  22.34  2.20  60.6  6  2
                          13  821.4  1914  82  7/84  13/171  23.34  2.32  60.1  8  2
    v Sri Lanka           13  527.5  1507  59  5/43  10/155  25.54  2.85  53.6  5  2
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    v West Indies         16  547.2  1581  49  7/52   8/117  32.26  2.88  67.0  1  0
                          10  483.4  1214  70  8/46  11/170  17.34  2.50  41.4  8  3
    v Zimbabwe             1   53.1   137   6  3/68   6/137  22.83  2.57  53.1  0  0
                          14  786.5  1467  87  9/51  13/115  16.86  1.86  54.2  6  2
    
    in Australia          58 2690.3  6894 266  8/71  12/128  25.91  2.56  60.6 12  4
                           3  146     505   8  3/55   5/157  63.12  3.45 109.5  0  0
    in England            22 1125.1  2831 129  7/165 12/246  21.94  2.51  52.3  8  3
                           3  239.5   517  24  9/65  16/220  21.54  2.15  59.9  3  1
    in India               9  459.1  1466  34  6/125  6/125  43.11  3.19  81.0  1  0
                           5  264.2   731  15  5/162  5/162  48.73  2.76 105.7  1  0
    in New Zealand         9  419.5  1044  49  5/39   7/86   21.30  2.48  51.4  1  0
                           4  167     382  13  5/64   6/105  29.38  2.28  77.0  1  0
    in Pakistan            3  181.4   504  18  6/136  9/240  28.00  2.77  60.5  2  0
                           7  409.5  1053  49  6/71  10/148  21.48  2.56  50.1  2  1
    in South Africa        9  485.5  1060  46  6/161  8/231  23.04  2.18  63.3  1  0
                           6  353.1   911  35  6/39  11/161  26.02  2.57  60.5  3  1
    in Sri Lanka           9  317.2   982  48  7/94  11/188  20.45  3.09  39.6  6  3
                          57 3278.5  7361 373  9/51  13/115  19.73  2.24  52.7 33 11
    in U.A.E.              2   69     154  16  5/74   8/24    9.62  2.23  25.8  1  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    in West Indies         7  221.5   674  17  4/70   6/142  39.64  3.03  78.2  0  0
                           4  174.4   456  25  5/34   8/106  18.24  2.61  41.9  3  0
    in Zimbabwe            1   53.1   137   6  3/68   6/137  22.83  2.57  53.1  0  0
                           7  336.3   716  26  6/45   8/82   27.53  2.12  77.6  1  0
    
    in Africa             10  539    1197  52  6/161  8/231  23.01  2.22  62.1  1  0
                          13  689.4  1627  61  6/39  11/161  26.67  2.35  67.8  4  1
    in Americas            7  221.5   674  17  4/70   6/142  39.64  3.03  78.2  0  0
                           4  174.4   456  25  5/34   8/106  18.24  2.61  41.9  3  0
    in Asia               23 1027.1  3106 116  7/94  11/188  26.77  3.02  53.1 10  3
                          69 3953    9145 437  9/51  13/115  20.92  2.31  54.2 36 12
    in Europe             22 1125.1  2831 129  7/165 12/246  21.94  2.51  52.3  8  3
                           3  239.5   517  24  9/65  16/220  21.54  2.15  59.9  3  1
    in Oceania            67 3110.2  7938 315  8/71  12/128  25.20  2.55  59.2 13  4
                           7  313     887  21  5/64   6/105  42.23  2.83  89.4  1  0
    
    home                  58 2690.3  6894 266  8/71  12/128  25.91  2.56  60.6 12  4
                          57 3278.5  7361 373  9/51  13/115  19.73  2.24  52.7 33 11
    away                  68 3209    8510 336  7/165 12/246  25.32  2.65  57.3 18  5
                          39 2091.2  5271 195  9/65  16/220  27.03  2.52  64.3 14  3
    neutral                3  124     342  27  7/94  11/188  12.66  2.75  27.5  2  1
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    
    1992                   5  153.3   503  12  7/52   8/117  41.91  3.27  76.7  1  0
                           3  125.2   381  11  4/134  7/156  34.63  3.03  68.3  0  0
    1993                  16  842.2  1697  72  6/31   9/67   23.56  2.01  70.1  2  0
                           7  298.1   712  29  5/101  6/152  24.55  2.38  61.6  2  0
    1994                  10  629    1274  70  8/71  12/128  18.20  2.02  53.9  6  2
                           6  277.2   753  16  5/162  5/162  47.06  2.71 104.0  1  0
    1995                  12  508.3  1254  52  7/23  11/77   24.11  2.46  58.6  1  1
                           7  315.4   899  25  5/64   7/151  35.96  2.84  75.7  2  0
    1996                   4  215.1   571  15  4/95   7/160  38.06  2.65  86.0  0  0
                           2  105.3   195  14  5/33   7/61   13.92  1.84  45.2  1  0
    1997                  15  681.5  1661  68  6/48   9/111  24.42  2.43  60.1  2  0
                           9  501    1266  40  6/98   8/106  31.65  2.52  75.1  3  0
    1998                   5  268.1   796  24  6/34  11/109  33.16  2.96  67.0  2  1
                           8  550.2  1256  68  9/65  16/220  18.47  2.28  48.5  7  2
    1999                  13  464.1  1253  38  5/52   8/155  32.97  2.69  73.2  2  0
                           6  307     678  24  5/71   7/128  28.25  2.20  76.7  1  0
    2000                   4  154.2   496  15  4/68   7/160  33.06  3.21  61.7  0  0
                          10  623.2  1463  75  7/84  13/171  19.50  2.34  49.8  7  3
    2001                  13  583.3  1809  58  7/165 11/229  31.18  3.10  60.3  4  1
                          12  781.2  1699  80  8/87  11/170  21.23  2.17  58.6  7  4
    2002                  10  479    1310  67  7/94  11/188  19.55  2.73  42.8  3  1
                           8  472.4   979  55  9/51  13/115  17.80  2.07  51.5  5  2
    2004                  12  578.4  1685  70  6/125 10/155  24.07  2.91  49.6  5  2
                           6  359.3  1035  47  6/45  11/212  22.02  2.87  45.8  5  1
    2005                  10  465.2  1437  68  6/46  12/246  21.13  3.08  41.0  4  2
                           5  182.5   467  36  8/46  10/83   12.97  2.55  30.4  3  1
    2003                   0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           7  470.1   849  48  7/46  11/93   17.68  1.80  58.7  3  1
    
    season 1991/92         2   68     228   1  1/150  1/150 228.00  3.35 408.0  0  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    season 1992            2   38.1   158   3  3/11   3/118  52.66  4.13  76.3  0  0
                           2   73.1   225   4  2/109  3/141  56.25  3.07 109.7  0  0
    season 1992/93         7  267.2   569  27  7/52   8/117  21.07  2.12  59.4  1  0
                           2  113.1   329  12  4/118  7/156  27.41  2.90  56.5  0  0
    season 1993            6  439.5   877  34  5/82   8/137  25.79  1.99  77.6  1  0
                           5  221.2   492  20  5/101  6/152  24.60  2.22  66.4  2  0
    season 1993/94         9  517.3   948  51  7/56  12/128  18.58  1.83  60.8  3  1
                           4  159.1   467  16  5/162  5/162  29.18  2.93  59.6  1  0
    season 1994            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           1   47     165   1  1/123  1/165 165.00  3.51 282.0  0  0
    season 1994/95        12  575.5  1459  60  8/71  11/110  24.31  2.53  57.5  4  1
                           4  173     309  10  5/64   5/64   30.90  1.78 103.8  1  0
    season 1995/96         6  279.4   631  31  7/23  11/77   20.35  2.25  54.1  1  1
                           5  229.4   758  18  5/68   7/151  42.11  3.30  76.5  1  0
    season 1996            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           2  105.3   195  14  5/33   7/61   13.92  1.84  45.2  1  0
    season 1996/97         8  350.1   876  33  4/43   7/160  26.54  2.50  63.6  0  0
                           3  134     339  12  6/98   6/98   28.25  2.52  67.0  1  0
    season 1997            6  237.1   577  24  6/48   9/111  24.04  2.43  59.2  1  0
                           4  246     616  25  5/34   8/106  24.64  2.50  59.0  2  0
    season 1997/98         9  524.5  1433  49  6/34  11/109  29.24  2.73  64.2  3  1
                           6  402.3   973  36  7/94  12/117  27.02  2.41  67.0  3  1
    season 1998            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           4  268.5   594  35  9/65  16/220  16.97  2.20  46.0  4  1
    season 1998/99         4  122.5   378   4  1/43   2/110  94.50  3.07 184.2  0  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    season 1999            3   56.1   115   8  5/52   5/70   14.37  2.04  42.1  1  0
                           3  141.1   349  15  5/71   7/128  23.26  2.47  56.4  1  0
    season 1999/00        10  439.3  1256  41  5/110  8/155  30.63  2.85  64.3  1  0
                           6  379     845  35  6/71  10/148  24.14  2.22  64.9  1  1
    season 2000            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           6  341.4   786  38  7/84  13/171  20.68  2.30  53.9  4  1
    season 2000/01         3  152.1   505  10  4/47   5/107  50.50  3.31  91.3  0  0
                           5  347.3   681  26  6/39  11/161  26.19  1.95  80.1  2  1
    season 2001            5  195.2   580  31  7/165 11/229  18.70  2.96  37.8  3  1
                           3  177.3   444  23  8/87  11/196  19.30  2.50  46.3  2  1
    season 2001/02         9  459.5  1345  43  6/161  8/170  31.27  2.92  64.1  2  0
                           8  525    1068  72  9/51  13/115  14.83  2.03  43.7  7  4
    season 2002            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           3  170.4   395  18  5/39  10/98   21.94  2.31  56.8  3  1
    season 2002/03         6  255.1   689  41  7/94  11/188  16.80  2.70  37.3  2  1
                           2  101.5   251   7  3/83   4/168  35.85  2.46  87.2  0  0
    season 2003            0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
                           4  238.3   529  22  5/49   8/139  24.04  2.21  65.0  2  0
    season 2003/04         3  168     521  26  5/43  10/155  20.03  3.10  38.7  4  2
                           6  440.5   969  54  7/46  11/93   17.94  2.19  48.9  5  2
    season 2004            2  100.5   280  10  4/70   7/199  28.00  2.77  60.5  0  0
                           3  150.2   386  19  6/45   8/82   20.31  2.56  47.4  1  0
    season 2004/05        11  491.2  1453  56  6/125  8/112  25.94  2.95  52.6  2  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    season 2005            5  252.5   797  40  6/46  12/246  19.92  3.15  37.9  3  2
                           2   75.3   175  17  8/46  10/83   10.29  2.31  26.6  2  1
    season 2005/06         1   31      71   6  3/23   6/71   11.83  2.29  31.0  0  0
                           3  107.2   292  19  6/18   9/60   15.36  2.72  33.8  1  0
    
    toss won              64 2850    7467 306  8/71  11/77   24.40  2.62  55.8 21  7
                          50 2714.5  6050 303  9/65  16/220  19.96  2.22  53.7 27  7
    toss lost             65 3173.3  8279 323  7/56  12/128  25.63  2.60  58.9 11  3
                          46 2655.2  6582 265  9/51  13/115  24.83  2.47  60.1 20  7
    
    toss won & batted     51 2286.3  6034 244  8/71  11/77   24.72  2.63  56.2 17  6
                          31 1653    3577 178  7/46  13/171  20.09  2.16  55.7 16  4
    toss won & fielded    13  563.3  1433  62  6/46  10/162  23.11  2.54  54.5  4  1
                          19 1061.5  2473 125  9/65  16/220  19.78  2.32  50.9 11  3
    toss lost & sent in   24 1029.2  2678  86  6/64   9/80   31.13  2.60  71.8  1  0
                          14  692.3  1626  77  8/46  10/83   21.11  2.34  53.9  6  2
    toss lost & fielded   41 2144.1  5601 237  7/56  12/128  23.63  2.61  54.2 10  3
                          32 1962.5  4956 188  9/51  13/115  26.36  2.52  62.6 14  5
    
    matches batting 1st   75 3315.5  8712 330  8/71  11/77   26.40  2.62  60.2 18  6
                          45 2345.3  5203 255  8/46  13/171  20.40  2.21  55.1 22  6
    matches fielding 1st  54 2707.4  7034 299  7/56  12/128  23.52  2.59  54.3 14  4
                          51 3024.4  7429 313  9/51  16/220  23.73  2.45  57.9 25  8
    
    1st team innings     129 3230.2  8686 322  7/23  12/128  26.97  2.68  60.1 16 10
                          96 3353.1  7913 323  9/51  16/220  24.49  2.35  62.2 26 14
    2nd team innings     120 2793.1  7060 307  8/71  12/128  22.99  2.52  54.5 16 10
                          72 2017    4719 245  9/65  16/220  19.26  2.33  49.3 21 14
    
    1st match innings     54 1298.2  3556 142  7/56  12/128  25.04  2.73  54.8  5  4
                          51 1755.4  4402 166  9/51  16/220  26.51  2.50  63.4 12  8
    2nd match innings     75 1932    5130 180  7/23  11/77   28.50  2.65  64.4 11  6
                          43 1597.3  3511 157  7/46  13/171  22.36  2.19  61.0 14  6
    3rd match innings     66 1761.1  4349 190  6/31  12/128  22.88  2.46  55.6 10  6
                          48 1497.5  3484 180  9/65  16/220  19.35  2.32  49.9 16 10
    4th match innings     54 1032    2711 117  8/71  11/110  23.17  2.62  52.9  6  4
                          24  519.1  1235  65  8/46  11/93   19.00  2.37  47.9  5  4
    
    no follow-on         115 5310.1 13976 542  8/71  12/128  25.78  2.63  58.7 28  8
                          82 4593.1 10822 491  9/51  16/220  22.04  2.35  56.1 41 12
    enforcing a follow-on 13  670.2  1637  79  7/23  11/77   20.72  2.44  50.9  4  2
                           7  432.1   813  59  7/84  13/171  13.77  1.88  43.9  5  2
    in team following on   1   43     133   8  4/31   8/133  16.62  3.09  32.2  0  0
                           7  344.5   997  18  5/162  5/162  55.38  2.89 114.9  1  0
    
    matches won           77 3670.5  9387 437  8/71  11/77   21.48  2.55  50.4 22  7
                          36 2098.1  4456 288  9/51  16/220  15.47  2.12  43.7 26 11
    matches drawn         26 1248.4  3289  90  6/122 12/246  36.54  2.63  83.2  5  1
                          29 1547.5  3403 127  7/46  11/93   26.79  2.19  73.1 10  2
    matches lost          26 1104    3070 102  7/56  12/128  30.09  2.78  64.9  5  2
                          31 1724.1  4773 153  6/59  11/212  31.19  2.76  67.6 11  1
    
    won by an innings     23 1026.2  2505 146  7/23  11/77   17.15  2.44  42.1  7  3
                          14  760    1499 117  9/51  13/115  12.81  1.97  38.9 11  5
    won defending target  33 1531.5  3961 174  8/71  11/110  22.76  2.58  52.8 10  4
                           8  391     887  62  8/46  10/83   14.30  2.26  37.8  7  3
    won chasing target    21 1112.4  2921 117  6/33   8/70   24.96  2.62  57.0  5  0
                          14  947.1  2070 109  9/65  16/220  18.99  2.18  52.1  8  3
    lost by an innings     2   54     198   0   -      -       -    3.66    -   0  0
                          11  522.4  1478  36  5/101  5/101  41.05  2.82  87.1  3  0
    lost defending targ.  10  539.2  1383  57  7/56  12/128  24.26  2.56  56.7  3  2
                          10  657.2  1913  70  6/59  11/212  27.32  2.91  56.3  5  1
    lost chasing target   14  510.4  1489  45  5/52   8/133  33.08  2.91  68.0  2  0
                          10  544.1  1382  47  5/34   8/106  29.40  2.53  69.4  3  0
    
    5 day matches        128 5992.3 15675 623  8/71  12/128  25.16  2.61  57.7 32 10
                          95 5316.1 12475 563  9/51  16/220  22.15  2.34  56.6 47 14
    6 day matches          1   31      71   6  3/23   6/71   11.83  2.29  31.0  0  0
                           1   54     157   5  3/55   5/157  31.40  2.90  64.8  0  0
    
    1st/Only Tests        38 1797.2  4675 212  8/71  11/77   22.05  2.60  50.8 10  4
                          41 2323.1  5504 267  9/65  16/220  20.61  2.36  52.2 28  8
    2nd Tests             36 1712.1  4300 195  7/52  12/128  22.05  2.51  52.6 13  4
                          35 1960.3  4596 195  9/51  13/115  23.56  2.34  60.3 12  4
    3rd Tests             36 1704.5  4586 143  6/33   9/111  32.06  2.69  71.5  5  0
                          18  982.2  2294  88  8/87  11/196  26.06  2.33  66.9  5  1
    4th Tests              9  339.5   914  28  4/31   8/133  32.64  2.68  72.8  0  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    5th Tests              8  366.2  1034  42  7/165 12/246  24.61  2.82  52.3  4  2
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    6th Tests              2  103     237   9  3/78   5/148  26.33  2.30  68.6  0  0
                           0    -       -   -   -      -       -     -      -   -  -
    
    in series lost        21  918.1  2774  96  7/52  12/246  28.89  3.02  57.3  7  2
                          37 1924.5  5088 173  6/39  11/161  29.41  2.64  66.7 15  2
    in series drawn       15  733.1  1597  58  7/56  12/128  27.53  2.17  75.8  2  1
                          13  814.2  1793  64  7/84  13/171  28.01  2.20  76.3  5  1
    in series won         93 4372.1 11375 475  8/71  11/77   23.94  2.60  55.2 23  7
                          46 2631    5751 331  9/51  16/220  17.37  2.18  47.6 27 11
    Last edited by Pratters; 04-11-2005 at 05:02 PM.

  10. #40
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Some initial observations:

    Both are crap in India

    Murali is devastating in tests Sri Lanka win with an average of 17.

    Countries versus whom both bowlers have a better average than their career average:

    Zimbabwe and England
    Last edited by Pratters; 04-11-2005 at 05:04 PM.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Winning the toss seems to be of vital importance for Murali.

    Also Murali is some how not that good in Zimbabwe with an average of 27

  12. #42
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    I don't think Warne can fairly described as crap against India. The super test showed that their batsman are no less fallible against him than the rest. He dismissed Dravid with a beaut classic leg break and felled Sehway to.

    His lack of success on tours to India have IMO been in no small part explained by his shoulder and finger injuries. On the last tour (yer the excuses are comin thick and fast but are IMO valid) by poor form. In regards to the latter, he suffered from a technical fault ie. bowling around himself that caused him to lose drift and loop that has made him so effective in the past. The relative lack of success at home v NZ and then Pakistan, where he was outbowled by Danish Kaneria confirmed for me it was a technical thing.

    His then subsequent return to form in Eng followed a crucial coaching session with Troy Cooley on the eve of the first test when Cooley helped him overcome the problem. As we know, he hasn't hasn't looked back since. As i type this he bowls Edwards with a beaut WRONGIN. Great to see him back to his best here..

    Correction: It was Terry Jenner he consulted in England.
    As i was saying I don't doubt Warnes ability to have success in India, if he's free of injuries and in good form.
    Last edited by parttimer; 04-11-2005 at 08:01 PM.

  13. #43
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    At present, Warne. Both at their peak, injury-free, etc., far too close to call. Too different to compare in my eyes.

    One thing I agree with Jack is that Murali has been a lesser bowler since he started making the doosra almost his stock ball. Conversely, Warne has been a far better/smarter bowler since he has been less able to land the flipper. Because of that, he's had to bowl with more subtle variation, etc. because if there was one area Warne was lacking early in his career, it was variation. He basically had the leggie, flipper and toppie and concentrated in bowling them very, very well. Now he has several variations on the ball which does absolutely nothing. And it gets him wickets! ****


    ***** Yes I KNOW they don't do absolutely nothing but vary in flight/drift, etc. If you thought I didn't based on what I posted, get to a docter and get a facetiousness chip installed.
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  14. #44
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parttimer
    I don't think Warne can fairly described as crap against India. The super test showed that their batsman are no less fallible against him than the rest. He dismissed Dravid with a beaut classic leg break and felled Sehway to.

    His lack of success on tours to India have IMO been in no small part explained by his shoulder and finger injuries. On the last tour (yer the excuses are comin thick and fast but are IMO valid) by poor form. In regards to the latter, he suffered from a technical fault ie. bowling around himself that caused him to lose drift and loop that has made him so effective in the past. The relative lack of success at home v NZ and then Pakistan, where he was outbowled by Danish Kaneria confirmed for me it was a technical thing.

    His then subsequent return to form in Eng followed a crucial coaching session with Troy Cooley on the eve of the first test when Cooley helped him overcome the problem. As we know, he hasn't hasn't looked back since. As i type this he bowls Edwards with a beaut WRONGIN. Great to see him back to his best here..

    Correction: It was Terry Jenner he consulted in England.
    As i was saying I don't doubt Warnes ability to have success in India, if he's free of injuries and in good form.
    Firstly, Dravid has always had trouble against Warne with the possible exception of his innings @ Eden where he batted with Laxman and scored 180 runs.

    Is it possible that Warne hits the poor form when he plays against India and not other way round. After all it cant be just a co-incidence that Warne has played India a quite a few times and every time he was either injured or out-of-form.

    Anyways, I am in no way suggesting that Warnie is any less of a great bowler because of his poor performance against India, the fact is that he has done pretty well against Dravid the best Indian batsmen in last 5 years and has had his moments against Sachin.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    Firstly, Dravid has always had trouble against Warne with the possible exception of his innings @ Eden where he batted with Laxman and scored 180 runs.

    Is it possible that Warne hits the poor form when he plays against India and not other way round. After all it cant be just a co-incidence that Warne has played India a quite a few times and every time he was either injured or out-of-form.

    Anyways, I am in no way suggesting that Warnie is any less of a great bowler because of his poor performance against India, the fact is that he has done pretty well against Dravid the best Indian batsmen in last 5 years and has had his moments against Sachin.
    My theory is that it IS a coincidence.

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