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*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

C_C

International Captain
I exemplified earlier: If I say, hey guys let's share our food, and you guys say No (for whatever reason) and then after we're done eating our meals you say to me..."Huh? How come you didn't share?
Perfectly justified response to a guy who specialises in stealing food off others and then offering to share.
As i said - a crook needs to lay down some groundwork to 'get in the clear'. Australian team is simply speaking, by far the least trustworthy of sporting conduct on the field of play. As such, they have to first build the trust before anyone takes em seriously and anything more than yet another opportunity to 'bend the fairplay aspect'.
 

C_C

International Captain
it just seems to me that it shows their character that they said anything at all initially.
Precisely.
The difference between someone who puts down the gun in the first place and somone who opens fire and says 'sorry. i regret it'. The latter is not going to be taken on pure face value and justifiably so.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Dasa said:
My only comment on that issue (that of a 'catching agreement') was regarding what the captains disagreed with Ponting on. I'm not suggesting that the Aussies should have to take a fielders word for it if other teams don't.

Believe them about what? I don't disbelieve that they did retract their statements and meant it...it just seems to me that it shows their character that they said anything at all initially.
Ok I understand what you're saying now. I don't agree with them saying it initially as well. I just didn't agree with a FURTHER vilification because they retracted it. Reading the sites and papers it was unbelievable what a love most of them had for rubbing it in their faces. For what? They even retracted it before the games. It shows some bitterness for sure.
 

parttimer

U19 Cricketer
C_C said:
Perfectly justified response to a guy who specialises in stealing food off others and then offering to share.
As i said - a crook needs to lay down some groundwork to 'get in the clear'. Australian team is simply speaking, by far the least trustworthy of sporting conduct on the field of play. As such, they have to first build the trust before anyone takes em seriously and anything more than yet another opportunity to 'bend the fairplay aspect'.
Slipping that in there, as if its a given..:blink:
 

C_C

International Captain
parttimer said:
Slipping that in there, as if its a given..:blink:
It is a given based on :

1. Major behavioural incidents over the last 8-9 years
2. People commentating on the Aussie sledging ( involving former players and some commentators).

I would consider that as fairly substantial circumstantial evidence and as much of a 'given' as it gets in these situations.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C_C said:
A tennis player saying '**** you' to his opposition in wimbledon finals is FAR more offensive than any act of cheating on court. Look up Jeff Tarango incident. .
So swearing is worse than cheating?

No wonder youre so hard on the Aussies.
8-)
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
I can't possibly agree with taking what someone, who is not on the field at the time, has to say about the going ons of on-field sledging for gospel.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
parttimer said:
Slipping that in there, as if its a given..:blink:
He may be right 8-) ,but really, you won't see Australian crowds riot in violence as happened in India only 9 days back. I mean, you hear people on these boards talk about how inappropriate sledging is and compare it to murder. What then when you can actually have fear for your life in a riot?
 

parttimer

U19 Cricketer
C_C said:
It is a given based on :

1. Major behavioural incidents over the last 8-9 years
2. People commentating on the Aussie sledging ( involving former players and some commentators).

I would consider that as fairly substantial circumstantial evidence and as much of a 'given' as it gets in these situations.
Sledging = untrustworthy now.. OIC :wacko:
 

C_C

International Captain
social said:
So swearing is worse than cheating?

No wonder youre so hard on the Aussies.
8-)

It is in almost every single sport.
A basketball player yelling '**** you' on a mike causes far more offence (in terms of reaction AND punishment) than him trying to wear illegal sneakers or jump the tip-off.

A NHL player yelling '**** you' causes far more offence than a goalie wearing illegal pads.(though for some strange reason, fighting is okay. go figure!).

Its a standard norm in most sport where behaviour is usually paramount.
 

C_C

International Captain
parttimer said:
Sledging = untrustworthy now.. OIC :wacko:
Did you read my previous comments ? Its not just sledging- its claiming bump catches, flicking the bails off with bare hands when no-one is watching and then appealing, asking the ump for 2nd referral, etc etc. that all adds up to an untrustworthy personna for fairplay purposes.
Sure, other teams have had their incidents- but none so much as Australia.
 

C_C

International Captain
KaZoH0lic said:
He may be right 8-) ,but really, you won't see Australian crowds riot in violence as happened in India only 9 days back. I mean, you hear people on these boards talk about how inappropriate sledging is and compare it to murder. What then when you can actually have fear for your life in a riot?
I suppose the whole Cronulla beach episode was just a weird dream i had.

Besides, we are talking about players here. Not the viewers. Stick to the topic please.
 

C_C

International Captain
vic_orthdox said:
I can't possibly agree with taking what someone, who is not on the field at the time, has to say about the going ons of on-field sledging for gospel.

Even if you had a mike installed in the field and turned on, powerful enough to pick up the noise of someone scratching his balls from long-on ?
:)
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
I suppose the whole Cronulla beach episode was just a weird dream i had.

Besides, we are talking about players here. Not the viewers. Stick to the topic please.
That was a bunch of idiots, what did it have to do with Cricket? If sanctity, safety and all those distinguished traits are so upheld, why are these things slipping by? Read a little, you may actually be fooled enough to think that Ricky Ponting talking to the Umpires or Warne's comments on Murali were worse than riots or fights. Certainly they're getting more attention.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
This thread has taken off a lot since I last posted so I'll try and keep up. Here's what I wanted to respond to up to page five.

For whatever reasons, he did eat his words (obviously not because Bangladesh did well). People are not saying 'He should eat his words' but that 'He ate his words' before the series started. I dont know what changed his mind, but It was nice to see him eating the humble pie both before the test and during the test(due to BD performance).
Ponting didn't eat his words. Nobody said to him "oh so don't Bangladesh deserve test status now?" And do you know why? Because Ponting took those words back BEFORE the test. Ponting didn't answer for anything. However, people were more than happy to go back to his comments months ago and talk about it.

Who said he is for that reason alone ? However I felt his outburst @ Duncan Fletcher and then going on and on about spirit of game (after the ashes was over) was pretty hypocritical.
Who said he is? Immediately after standing his ground in South Africa, the South African reporters at the ground were starting stories of him being a hypocrit. I've seen people here at CW, when Australia played Sri Lanka, immediately jump all over him for standing his ground. People genuinely think he's a hypocrit for standing his ground.

The fact that Ponting had the gall to suggest something like that is whats hypocritical.
Its about as credible as a fraudster asking you to trust him with your money if he trusts you with his. Players should accept the word of a fielder. Yeah- thats when the OZ team themselves dont accept the word of fielders ( whatever happened to practice what you preach?), flick off bails with bare hands when nobody is looking and then appeal for a dismissal, claim catches on the bounce, etc etc. Right-O !
And i shall be taking the words of the American government that there are WMDs in Iraq.
We have no reason to believe Ponting is trying to put one over on his opposition. I disagree with Ponting's stance because fieldsmen do miss catches that they think they've caught batsmen. And when you have one fifth of a second to react, that's an honest mistake. I honestly believe Steve Waugh made an honest mistake then.

Why raise it at all, why not let the umpires do their job. IMO it's another one of their dirty games that Steve Waugh played all along as a captain and now Ponting is trying that. But other captains aren't as dumb as Ponting to fall for it.
And around and around in circles we go. There's a difference between spirit of the game and cricket laws. BIG DIFFERENCE. I used an example before.

The context was the world record and it is obvious what he meant.
Your right, he said it in reference to the world record. Nobody disputes that. As Kazo said, he's talking about a way most likely for somebody to take the world record. And is he wrong? Nope. That's what irks people, he said something that was true in regard to how the record can be broken.

I might go through page six and onward. But I have to say people just can't seem to wrap their mind around certain concepts that make it difficult to debate with him. I can accept somebody's point of view, but I'd like them to at least understand my point of view in order to disagree with it.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
OK after reading nearly all of this thread I decided not to continue on in this thread due to C_C. I mean the cheap shots and no-wit sarcasim aside, the bias being shown against Australia is getting silly. Like for example, yeah plenty of players get injured, but I don't recall Donald or Akram playing with those injuries.

Seriously, anybody here read through this thread and tell me C_C isn't being hard on the Aussies.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Francis said:
OK after reading nearly all of this thread I decided not to continue on in this thread due to C_C. I mean the cheap shots and no-wit sarcasim aside, the bias being shown against Australia is getting silly. Like for example, yeah plenty of players get injured, but I don't recall Donald or Akram playing with those injuries.

Seriously, anybody here read through this thread and tell me C_C isn't being hard on the Aussies.
You've joined late mate. Worser things said than this. Surprised he isn't banned.
 

C_C

International Captain
Like for example, yeah plenty of players get injured, but I don't recall Donald or Akram playing with those injuries.
Willis played his whole life with dodgy knees. Nobody ever whined about that.
Imran Khan played with a broken ankle right through a test match once- no one whined about that. He missed two years in his prime when he was absolutely the best bowler going around town.
Waqar practically went from the greatest fast bowler ever to chump because of fracturing his spine twice. No one whined about that.

Yet, whenever Warne is playing poorly, the injury crap is thrown around. Marvellous!

PS: Akram played throughout his career with one perpetual injury - groin. That is well known and it is also easy to see why ( because Akram had 'toes pointing in the opposing direction' while delivering the ball and thus torquing his groin muscles immensely).
 
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C_C

International Captain
parttimer said:
CC you are a noted racist, so i expect ignorance from you..
I dare you to put forward ONE single comment I've ever made that is a generalisation pertaining to a race. Or do you, perhaps like some here, fail to differentiate between an illustration and a statement as well ?

Besides, keep your sanctimonious pretend BS to yourself. I note that you consider my distaste for the uncouth Australian team to be 'racist' ( while its worth mentioning that i certainly am not extending it to all 'white' teams like NZ,RSA and ENG as well) but you completely and utterly ignored the 'one rule for the subcontinentals' comment from your buddy social ( which is far more racist in its tone, as it is pertaining to race in much more clear-cut fashion).
So, in short, shut up.
 
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