Who is the world's best Test bowler ever?

[Jamee999]

Wow, from Eddie, the ultimate praise!

(Be funny if you edited your post to "You're an idiot, Jamee")

 

[Slow Love™]

Sorry for that SL. I know long posts can be a bit confusing and if they contain the kind of long sentences that I am guilty of, its a bad combination. Add to that a poor attempt at wit/sarcasm and the plot is lost

Let me try to make ammends.

1. The basic point of the post is that though their is undoubtedly a home advantage, every one has it. On their own turfs naturally.

2. The visitors get to play on the same conditions as the home side so that cant be unfair, the advantage is only to the extent that the hosts have done it most of their cricketing lives so are better conditioned to exploit them.

3. The sub-continental conditions are simultaneously called batting paradises as well as 'tailored-for-home-grown' spinners. This is used, depending on the point one is trying to make to run down sub continental batsmen, sub continental spinners and sub continental teams. Surprisingly the same is not used to run down spinners from other countries who cant exploit these conditions as well, lets name Warne.

OR to run down batsmen who fail in India, lets name Ponting.

On top of it when Indian batsmen, lets name sachin and Siddhu, take Warne to the cleaners, it is said that they can do it because the wickets are batsmen's paradise, etc etc.

The point I was making was that lets just accept that there is a home advantage , ALWAYS. Its not just the wickets mind you. I have talked to Indian cricketers from the past and they said they couldnt hold the bat let alone the ball in England due to the cold. I am sure the same applies to English men visiting India. Similarly, the swing bowlers make merry in the English conditions. Why, their have been bowlers used only for playing in England, mainly, and almost discarded in Australia inspite of remarkable bowling in the earlier (and subsequent Ashes series).

SO. A player should not be grudged his home advantage for its not just he (or his countrymen who have it) nor should he be decried if his home performance is a bit better than his away performance. That is natural in normal conditions.

Then there will be the exceptions. Players who can perform best ONLY in one type of .environment. Believe me, it may not always be home as in the case of, Terry Alderman who had 10 five-fors in 12 matches played in England in which he took nearly 7 wickets per test match (one more wicket would have done that) and yet managed only 3.4 per test in 20 games at 50% higher cost per wicket !!!

There are exceptions like Ponting in India. He clearly has a problem with spin that comes slower off the track. Its the opposite of Laxman who loves the ball coming quickly off the turf in Australia (although he would play the Aussie bowling on the moon to I suspect).

This is something which can be and is dscussed in cricketing circles and strategies are made around it. But to generally denigrate whole teams, their batsmen, their bowlers for home advantage is unfair AND as I have tried to show(in my muddled way) contradictory in terms.

Coming to the bowler in the last paragraph, I was talking of Kapil and not Srinath.

Excellent points - you've convinced me completely on the issue of home vs away performances (I would still hold that there's some value in comparisons factoring in favourable/unfavourable conditions when it comes to cricketers who are hard to separate in terms of class/ability, as well as success on varying surfaces), and it's very true what you say in terms of the multiple sticks used to beat up subcontinental batsmen or bowlers - ie, if one stick doesn't work, try another one.

I think what confused me initially was that I was talking in general terms, while you were talking about more specific biases. So when you say, for instance, that nobody denigrates Warne's performances on the subcontinent, I immediately think "yes, people do", but I think you're talking more about a motivated group (which is quite large!) of people in particular. I do think that Ponting's performances in the subcontinent are in general harshly judged though, and in most people's minds (including many in Australia) it's what will likely preclude him from any kind of "great" status.

Ha, I had wondered if you meant Kapil in that last paragraph, but then I decided he probably wasn't as chronically undervalued as Srinath. But in terms of comparisons to the upper echelons of cricketers to which Kapil belongs, I guess he is too.

 

[Pratters]

The point I was making was that lets just accept that there is a home advantage , ALWAYS. Its not just the wickets mind you. I have talked to Indian cricketers from the past and they said they couldnt hold the bat let alone the ball in England due to the cold. I am sure the same applies to English men visiting India. Similarly, the swing bowlers make merry in the English conditions. Why, their have been bowlers used only for playing in England, mainly, and almost discarded in Australia inspite of remarkable bowling in the earlier (and subsequent Ashes series).

The whole post was excellent.

Some home advantages:

1) The crowd! How many players are accustomed to play in the noise of Eden Gardens?

2) The travelling related issues - Each country has its strangeness related to this. Even though hotel standards have improved, no one can deny the inconvenience of late ness of (I can speak of India) schedules of travelling. In England players may not adjust well to the travel via train or road if they are not accustomed to. Many problems may arise due to travelling.

3) The food - Shane Warne baked beans any one?

4) Weather (already mentioned in your post)

One sub point I want to add to your article - while teams should not be discredited for taking advantage of home conditions, visiting teams who perform despite differences (which are far reduced over the years but still present in every regard) should rightly be given extra credit.

Which is why the Australian team has been so superb.

 

[Top_Cat]

3) The food - Shane Warne baked beans any one?

I think that was more to do with the fact that Warnie is a typical ocker Aussie idiot who's unwilling to try anything new than the quality of the food where he went. I don't think they went to a restaurant less than 4 stars.