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Pick Your Best All time ODI Team

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
Brian Lara
Michael Bevan
Kapil Dev/Lance Kluesener (leaning towards Kapil)
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Joel Garner
Glenn McGrath
 

PY

International Coach
age_master said:
Klusener is a better batsman i spose, and that is better value when you already have 4 top class bowlers?
I didn't realise the Zulu Warrior had such good stats!

He comprehensively beats Flintoff against every meaningful country except India & Pakistan and his bowling isn't much worse than Freddie's.

Although Flintoff's averages are improving all the time (35 with bat and 26 with ball), you have to go with Lancey baby.
 

sanjane

Cricket Spectator
foe said:
who would make it to your best all time ODI Team? 8-)

here's mine :

Sachin Tendulkar ( IND)
Desmond Haynes ( WI)
Viv Richards (WI)
Aravinda De Silva ( SL)
Micheal Bevan (AUS)
Adam Gilchrist (AUS)
Lance Klusener (SAF)
Wasim Akram (Pak)
Waqar Younis (Pak)
Muttiah Muralitharan ( SL)
Joel Garner ( WI)

12th Man: Chris cairns ( NZ)
Mine would be:

1. Tendulkar
2. Jayasuriya
3. Richards
4. Lara
5. Dean Jones
6. Bevan
7. Gilchrist
8. Klusener
9. Akram
10. Vaas
11. Muralidaran

12. Afridi

13. Reserve Batsman: Ganguly
14. Reserve WK: Sangakkara
15. Reserve Spinner: Warne
16. Reserve Quick: McGrath
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
My Side:

1. S Tendulkar
2. A Gilchrist (wk)
3. V Richards
4. B Lara
5. M Bevan
6. J Rhodes
7. I Khan (c)
8. W Akram
9. W Younis
10. M Muralitharan
11. J Garner

SuperSub: L Klusener
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I'll try this, tough one though.

Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Brian Lara
Michael Bevan
Imran Kahn (c)
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtley Ambrose
Glenn McGrath

Super-Sub: Kapil Dev

As a cop out, I'll have "reserves":
Reserve Bowlers: Joel Garner, Waqar Younis and Murali
Reserve Batsmen: Richard Ponting, Sourav Ganguly & Lance Klusener
 

Hazza

U19 Cricketer
1. Vivian Richards
2. Barry Richards
3. Sachin Tendaulkar
4. Desmond Haynes
5. Gary Sobers
6. Imran Kahn (c)
7. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Wasim Akram
10. Glenn McGrath
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

Super-sub: Sanath Jyasuria
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I cannot believe only one guy has chosen Jonty in the side. Once again, we are picking a side without looking at the roles each one has to play in the side. Playing Lara at 5 for example, is just a waste of him.
 

Hazza

U19 Cricketer
Most teams have players like Viv Richards in, a fantastic batsman and fielder, maybe not as good as Jonty, but good enough. What he may lose in fielding he gains twice in batting. Great players are usually good fielders too.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
He was good, but again, none of them are gonna stand out. And most of them are used to batting in the top 4 or bowling with the new ball. They might struggle when played out of position. Watch the super series for an example of this.
 

Hazza

U19 Cricketer
I think the super series failure was not down to the batting positions, I think it was down to the fact that the world XI had hardly played together, and also due to how well the australians played.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
honestbharani said:
He was good, but again, none of them are gonna stand out. And most of them are used to batting in the top 4 or bowling with the new ball. They might struggle when played out of position. Watch the super series for an example of this.
But that wasn't the case. Well not in the ODIs anyway.

The whole argument that players batting out of position (Eg. Flintoff batting so low) was part of a reason for the Super Series failures was incorrect, because for 2/3 games Flintoff was in very early on due to quick wickets.

The only example where a player playing out of position was detrimental to the World XI was Flintoff opening the bowling and Kallis coming in first change. Even then, Flintoff did a pretty good job.

Australia won because the World Xi were, for the most part, low on form and match practice, and Australia were much hungrier for the win considering the Ashes loss.

EDIT: After reading both of Hazza's posts, he basically said what I just said. :p
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
age_master said:
Klusener is a better batsman i spose, and that is better value when you already have 4 top class bowlers?
Having 5 top class bowlers would be pretty important, means you don't have a weak link to attack or lift the pressure. Just looking at some of the players who've been chosen at 5, Flintoff is far better or far more suitable (to that batting position) than most of them.
 
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FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Scaly piscine said:
Having 5 top class bowlers would be pretty important, means you don't have a weak link to attack or lift the pressure. Just looking at some of the players who've been chosen at 5, Flintoff is far better or far more suitable (to that batting position) than most of them.
How suitable is Flintoff to number 7 though?

I'd say Flintoff is in the same boat as someone like Symonds. Both of them are big enough hitters and good enough batsmen to be very effective batting at 7, but really both are better suited to batting around 5 or so, as they do better with the chance to build an innings. Guys like Kluesener and Kapil could build an innings, but both were incredible strikers of the ball who has a great deal of success batting AT 7, which Flintoff never really has. Kluesener is the best ever batsman in that position, but Kapil was extremely good and his bowling was better than Kluesener's. I think it's perfectly reasonable to pick either one of them ahead of Flintoff in that spot.

edit: heh, just realised I totally misread your post, so ignore that. Still, I think the reason Flintoff hasn't been picked is because it's more traditional have a big hitting all-rounder at 7 than another batsman down there.
 
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C_C

International Captain
Alltime XI:

Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gillchrist (wkt)
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Ricky Ponting
Michael Bevan
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Scaly piscine said:
Can't believe no-one except Halsey so far has put Flintoff in their team.
and when you look at his side and realise that he hasnt picked bevan, i doubt anyone can take it seriously.
my side would be something in the following order
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Michael Bevan
Andrew Flower
Abdul Razzaq/Jonty Rhodes
Lance Klusener
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Mutthiah Muralitharan
Glenn Mcgrath

i think whats crucial about this side is that almost everyone is batting in their best positions.
 

C_C

International Captain
tooextracool said:
and when you look at his side and realise that he hasnt picked bevan, i doubt anyone can take it seriously.
my side would be something in the following order
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Michael Bevan
Andrew Flower
Abdul Razzaq/Jonty Rhodes
Lance Klusener
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Mutthiah Muralitharan
Glenn Mcgrath

i think whats crucial about this side is that almost everyone is batting in their best positions.
BCL opening ?
He hasnt done that in over 10 years and opened in less than a fourth of his 220-odd ODI matches. Simply going by average blindly is naive - you have to take into consideration that BCL has played very little as an opener and that too, for the very early part of his career.

And Bevan that high is not optimal usage of the talents at hand - Bevan's primary gift is rotating strike in the 30-40 over mark and score fluently while rotating the strike in the death overs.

And Razzaq really doesnt deserve a mention, not with Kapil Dev, Klusener, Cairns etc. around. The #7 spot in the ODIs for an alltime team is for a guy who can bowl excellently and score 20-25 runs in more than run a ball rate - Kapil fits the bill perfectly in that regard. That is a slot where bowling expertise trumps batting expertise by a bit and in terms of batting, the one with the higher strike rate ( as long as its not a significantly lower average) is the best one for the job.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
BCL opening ?
He hasnt done that in over 10 years and opened in less than a fourth of his 220-odd ODI matches. Simply going by average blindly is naive - you have to take into consideration that BCL has played very little as an opener and that too, for the very early part of his career.

And Bevan that high is not optimal usage of the talents at hand - Bevan's primary gift is rotating strike in the 30-40 over mark and score fluently while rotating the strike in the death overs.

And Razzaq really doesnt deserve a mention, not with Kapil Dev, Klusener, Cairns etc. around. The #7 spot in the ODIs for an alltime team is for a guy who can bowl excellently and score 20-25 runs in more than run a ball rate - Kapil fits the bill perfectly in that regard. That is a slot where bowling expertise trumps batting expertise by a bit and in terms of batting, the one with the higher strike rate ( as long as its not a significantly lower average) is the best one for the job.
agreed CC plus his inclusion of Flower of Gilchirst is bemusing also...
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
tooextracool said:
and when you look at his side and realise that he hasnt picked bevan, i doubt anyone can take it seriously.
my side would be something in the following order
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Michael Bevan
Andrew Flower
Abdul Razzaq/Jonty Rhodes
Lance Klusener
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Mutthiah Muralitharan
Glenn Mcgrath

i think whats crucial about this side is that almost everyone is batting in their best positions.

:lol:

WTF give ONE good reason why Flower would be in that side ahead of Gilchrist..

Lara should not be opening, Abdul Razzaq would be usefull but with a bowling line up like that you may as well include another batsman and a better one..
 

tooextracool

International Coach
C_C said:
BCL opening ?
He hasnt done that in over 10 years
your point is? viv richards hasnt played a game in over 15 years. we're not picking a team thats playing tomorrow incase you havent realised.

C_C said:
and opened in less than a fourth of his 220-odd ODI matches. Simply going by average blindly is naive - you have to take into consideration that BCL has played very little as an opener and that too, for the very early part of his career.
and if hes played very little as an opener does it automatically mean that hes useless at that spot? lara was very successful when he opened the batting with desmond haynes,and in that position he accomplished far more than hes ever done batting at 4. as far as him opening in less than a 4th of his 220 ODI matches, you do realise that hes only played 72 innings batting at 4(the position you have him down at), which isnt far off 51, and his record at 4 is very very ordinary?

C_C said:
And Bevan that high is not optimal usage of the talents at hand - Bevan's primary gift is rotating strike in the 30-40 over mark and score fluently while rotating the strike in the death overs.
no, bevans greatest skill was his ability to rotate the strike and score at close to a run a ball after the 15 over restrictions were done. as such the time youd want him to bat from would be overs 15-40. while bevan was also capable at the death, its glaringly obvious that he wasnt a slogger and therefore his effectiveness was considerably reduced whenever he was forced to bat down the order(while batting first). however i've always subscribed to the idea of having bevan bat at a flexible position, and i believe that when his team bats first youd want him to bat as close to over 15 as possible, and when the team bats 2nd youd want him to bat closer to over 30, because hes the person you want batting till the very end. in which case when the team bats 2nd, i wouldnt be against the idea of andy flower batting ahead of him.

C_C said:
And Razzaq really doesnt deserve a mention, not with Kapil Dev, Klusener, Cairns etc. around. The #7 spot in the ODIs for an alltime team is for a guy who can bowl excellently and score 20-25 runs in more than run a ball rate - Kapil fits the bill perfectly in that regard. That is a slot where bowling expertise trumps batting expertise by a bit and in terms of batting, the one with the higher strike rate ( as long as its not a significantly lower average) is the best one for the job.
klusener incase you havent noticed, is already in the squad. and razzaq is the designated number 6. the reason i have razzaq there is because i felt that at 6 i needed someone who could bat according to the situation, i.e play stop-start innings when they come in at the death, or play sensibly when the team is in trouble, and i havent seen anyone play better according to the situation at 6 than razzaq. further razzaq in his prime was quite a bowler, even if he wasnt one of the best around. i felt that 6 was too high a position for kapil, whos record with the bat is very very ordinary(other than against zimbabwe), and he wasnt really capable of playing according to the situation like razzaq was and would be play aggresively all the time. its a tough decision between cairns and razzaq though,but i think razzaq in his prime was a better bowler than cairns, while cairns is probably just as good with the bat.
 

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