India One-Day Squad: Which youngster will make the leap?

[adharcric]

Start with the guaranteed selections (in my opinion):
V. Sehwag, S. Tendulkar, M. Kaif, R. Dravid, Y. Singh, M.S. Dhoni, I. Pathan
Based on what we've seen in the Challenger Series, who else deserves to be selected in the national one-day side. Here are the major candidates:

Batsmen
Venugopal Rao
VVS Laxman
S Raina
R Uthappa
S Sriram
G Gambhir
S Ganguly (hate to do this, but with our selectors, even utter stupidity is possible ...)

Bowlers
A Nehra
Z Khan
A Agarkar
H Singh
R Powar
A Kumble
VRV Singh
RP Singh
S Santh
JP Yadav

[C_C]

Yuvraj and Kaif should not be garanteed picks in ODIs - Yuvvy has done well in this challenger series so pick him and get him to prove his class at an international level - Kaif should sit.

I would go with Venugopal ( he is the only one apart from Dravid, Tendulkar and Sehwag i can see handling Murali with any sorta ease) along with laxman.

For bowlers, Sree Santh needs a bit more work and so does VRV and RP Singh. I would pick Powar and Yadav in the team

[Jono]

Since the World Cup, Kaif has been India's 2nd best ODI batsman with an average of 40.51. He's only behind Sachin. How on Earth is Kaif's spot not guaranteed?

From what I've read of Rao, he sounds like a talent worth pursuing so I'd pick him, but again I haven't seen the Challenger Trophy and regular domestic season like some of you guys have.

[adharcric]

Kaif is DEFINITELY a guarantee. He's been India's best one-day batsman this year with an average of 45, followed by Dhoni at 42, Yuvraj at 39, Dravid at 38 and Pathan at 36. He was clearly in form in the past few one-day series, and a player of his experience shouldn't be dropped because of two failures in the Challenger Series. Besides, he's the leader of India's fielding unit, which is huge for the team right now.

This is what I would have:
Virender Sehwag
Sachin Tendulkar
Mohammad Kaif
Rahul Dravid
Yuvraj Singh
VVS Laxman (marginally beating out Suresh Raina)
Venugopal Rao
MS Dhoni
JP Yadav
Irfan Pathan
Ajit Agarkar
Ashish Nehra
VRV Singh
Harbhajan Singh (marginally beating out Ramesh Powar)

[Deja moo]

I wouldnt have Laxman in there, unless it were as a replacement for Ganguly.

[Arjun]

FRONTLINE BOWLING PLAN: Irfan, VR Singh, Yadav, Bangar, Rajesh Pawar
RESERVES: Powar, RP Singh
INDIA-A: Sreesanth, Joginder Sharma, Vinay Kumar, Ramkumar, Yusuf Pathan

[C_C]

Well okay i got that one wrong. Kaif plays.

I think this lineup ( and order) is worth a try:

Tendulkar
Laxman
Sehwag
Dravid
Kaif
Dhoni
JP Yadav
Pathan
Agarkar
Harbhajan/Powar
Nehra

Reasoning :

-Tendulkar, Dravid, Kaif,Dhoni, Pathan and Harbhajan are pretty much garantees.
- I would try opening with Laxman- he is more than capable of handling the new ball- he has done well against pacers and has some experience ( albeit poor results) opening in Tests. ODI opening should be easier than Tests for Laxman and the 15 over rule/powerplay would suit his temperament, as he isnt the fastest of runners to pinch singles in the middle overs but is a clean striker of the ball. Plus he is in good nick and he deserves to be in the team. If he fails, i would try out Raina/Utthapa/Dhawan to partner Tendulkar.

- Put Sehwag at #3. He has failed opening and considering the brilliant job he's done in the Tests, its never out of the card but i think Sehwag will be wasted at #6 or #7. I get the impression that Sehwag gets himself out by putting too much pressure on himself trying to get India off to a flyer. In Tests he doesnt have that pressure and he does fine. If Tendulkar-Laxman opening clicks, Sehwag will be able to settle down and score at his 'sedate' 70-75 strike rate zone, ala Tests. If he fails in the first few ODIs, i would bump up Dravid and give the #4 spot to Venugopal Rao. Sehwag is seriously lacking confidence in ODIs and i think this move might pay off.

- I am impressed by JP Yadav and i think he can offer a lot of balance to the IND lineup - he is a good clean striker of the ball and bowls accurate military medium - he wont be a wicket-taker but i think he would fit in very well in the '20-30 runs and 8-9 overs for 40 runs' category that India so badly needs.

- I think Agarkar is a gamble and frankly i would rather not have him. But Zaheer has dropped off the planet, Balaji still has a lot of work to do if he is to be considered for ODIs and VRV/RP Singh IMO need more experience in the domestic scene. Call it a lack of choice but Agarkar is someone i am willing to carry in the short term. If he really bolloxes up, i would go with Powar

- nehra has improved a lot and i think he deserves an extended run as long as he is fit.

I think this team can do well - It has 5 bona-fide bowling options and a long tail - all the way to #9 players are capable of giving it a good whack or scoring some decent runs.
Obviously with Tendulkar and Sehwag's bowling options present, i would rotate the bowlers ( gives the team 7 bowling options inclusive of the 2 part timers) if one is doing badly in a game.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by C_C

I think this lineup ( and order) is worth a try:

Reasoning :

• Laxman is not, and I repeat, NOT, an opener. He's been a target in that position and no more. Sehwag may have his problems, but there's no way you can write off someone who has established himself as one of the best Test openers of today, and opening in Tests is a lot tougher. All he needs to do is take more singles. Besides, Laxman may not be a fast runner, but he knows when to run and when he runs, he runs very hard. He's not athletic like Yuvraj, but he's got a far better temperament, but he's still a debatable selection.
• The Bodybuilder from Bhopal is a tricky swing bowler who can get under the skin of the battign side. Look at how he sneaks the ball through the batsman and generates unusual variations. When used well, he can be quite a package, and can back up the frontliners well. He's a regular run-scorer for the domestic teams for which he plays and hits the ball very hard. He's a good find and should get a longer run till the World Cup, and maybe beyond, till Joginder Sharma and the Pathan brothers develop their all-round skills.
• That said, Sanjay Bangar should get a recall. The selectors can opt for Amit Pagnis and Sanjay Bangar as openers, since they've performed well together. While Pagnis can hold one end up and play a long innings, Bangar can attack and smash everything that comes out of the park. Moreover, Bangar is a more-than-useful stock bowler who can stick to a line and length for a long time. They may not be individually very talented, but together, they're a good combination.
• Look, you can try anyone you want in the pace attack, even a rookie like Sreesanth, but if you're looking for a tournament victory, don't pick Agarkar. Sure, none of the others have done much, but you've dropped Zaheer, you've left out Balaji, while Nehra's the only one worth sticking to, but he's only useful when the ball is old.
• Never use Tendulkar and Sehwag for more than two overs out of 50.

[C_C]

- I know Sehwag is an excellent test opener - which is why i have not written him off from opening permanently. I think he is putting too much pressure on himself trying to get India off to a flyer of a start and being his own worst enemy. if he comes in at #3, he will have a platform to build on and not feel as much pressure trying to score 40 in 25 balls or something. It might work wonders for him to get his confidence back and when the situation comes, he can go back to opening in the ODIs with a new mindset and more experience.
Laxman i think can be a decent ODI opener - he certainly has the tools to deal with ODI opening. Yes, he was targetted before in Tests but i think ODI will see him succeed or do decently. He is not an athletic runner but i think Laxman is far more comfortable when boundaries are easy pickings - if you have noticed, when Laxman is hitting boundaries, his single-taking and placement also improves substantially.

- I really dont see what role Bangar can fulfill apart from JP YAdav's one. Its too much to expect Bangar to turn into a good top order batsman and he IMO is a '20-30 runs plus 8-9 overs for 40-50 runs' kinda player but i think Yadav has more potential to develop in that role

- Agarkar, as i said, is temporary and because of lack of options. I dont like the idea of pushing newbies through really qick - it can break a career from being force ripened. Let VRV, Sree Santh, RP Singh etc. toil it out for atleast another season or two in ODI cricket. That said, if Agarkar fails, i would like to see Powar get a chance.

- Tendulkar and Sehwag has to be used judiciously in ODIs. I am not advocating them being a regular 5-7 over bowlers, definately not Sehwag and most likely Tendulkar shouldnt have to do that on a regular basis. But on his day, Tendulkar can be a very potent bowler and i think the onus is on the captain to judge that. At most, i am counting on Sehwag + Tendulkar to bowl 5 overs on a regular basis, sprinkled around in the innings, unless all 5 frontline bowlers are bowling exceedingly well.

[Prince EWS]

I know India have been copping a hammering in in the one dayers, but I dont think TOO many changes are needed. Thats been the problem - trying players for one or two matches and then discarding them. I'd go with this team:

1. Virender Sehwag
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Mohammad Kaif
5. Yuvraj Singh
6. MS Dhoni
7. JP Yadav
8. Irfan Pathan
9. Harbhajan Singh
10. Zaheer Khan
11. Ashish Nehra
SuperSub: VVS Laxman

[Arjun]

I know Sehwag is an excellent test opener - which is why i have not written him off from opening permanently. I think he is putting too much pressure on himself trying to get India off to a flyer of a start and being his own worst enemy. if he comes in at #3, he will have a platform to build on and not feel as much pressure trying to score 40 in 25 balls or something. It might work wonders for him to get his confidence back and when the situation comes, he can go back to opening in the ODIs with a new mindset and more experience.

Sehwag shold stop batting like a pinch-hitter and start batting like a proper batsman. Notice how few singles he's taking? He's not going to score more than nine if he doesn't run hard, even if he bats at number seven. Look at Laxman– often accused of not scoring enough in singles, scored more yesterday in runs between wickets than in boundaries, and played out more scoring shots than dot balls. Why can't Sehwag? Whatever is keeping Laxman out of the ODI side is seen more clearly in Sehwag!

I really dont see what role Bangar can fulfill apart from JP YAdav's one. Its too much to expect Bangar to turn into a good top order batsman and he IMO is a '20-30 runs plus 8-9 overs for 40-50 runs' kinda player but i think Yadav has more potential to develop in that role

Yadav is a tricky new-ball bowler and he's done best when he's opened the bowling. However, he's often bowled with an old ball playing for India, and has struggled to get it to move. In comparison, Bangar is a steady medium-pacer who can do quite well with the old ball and can hold up one end. He's also a few k's faster than Yadav. He may only score 20 or 30 runs, but if it's an opening stand of over 50 at more than a run a ball, it's good. Moreover, he doesn't have to be a quality top-order batsman, but just an explosive Afridi-style pinch-hitter. He blends quite well with his opening partner Amit Pagnis, so if both open for India in ODI's, it can come off well.

Agarkar, as i said, is temporary and because of lack of options. I dont like the idea of pushing newbies through really qick - it can break a career from being force ripened. Let VRV, Sree Santh, RP Singh etc. toil it out for atleast another season or two in ODI cricket. That said, if Agarkar fails, i would like to see Powar get a chance.

You have to have faith in these youngsters, as you had in Irfan. Have you seen him? Never do you find someone so small in a world-cass pace attack. There's no way he can win a match on his own, and he's often a weak link in the combination. Look at his average in finals- it's over 40! And they say Sachin and Sehwag are 'chokers'! Sreesanth and VR Singh are fast and very aggressive, and fit in nicely in the team, though the young lad from Kerala should play a few seasons for India-A first. RP Singh seems a good fit in a one-day side. There's nothing wrong in pushing them in quick, but you should stand by them, rather than drop them at first go and get back some has-beens who don't count. Not everyone can have a perfect debut like Tendulkar.

Tendulkar and Sehwag has to be used judiciously in ODIs. I am not advocating them being a regular 5-7 over bowlers, definately not Sehwag and most likely Tendulkar shouldnt have to do that on a regular basis. But on his day, Tendulkar can be a very potent bowler and i think the onus is on the captain to judge that. At most, i am counting on Sehwag + Tendulkar to bowl 5 overs on a regular basis, sprinkled around in the innings, unless all 5 frontline bowlers are bowling exceedingly well.

The trick in using a part-time bowler is the surprise element. If you get on Sachin for just one over, he can bowl a lot of strange stuff which may get a key wicket, but keep him on a lot longer and he'll start bowling so much rubbish, the batting side can dominate. You have to back your spinners.

Laxman i think can be a decent ODI opener - he certainly has the tools to deal with ODI opening. Yes, he was targetted before in Tests but i think ODI will see him succeed or do decently. He is not an athletic runner but i think Laxman is far more comfortable when boundaries are easy pickings - if you have noticed, when Laxman is hitting boundaries, his single-taking and placement also improves substantially.

Laxman is a strokeplayer who uses all angles of the bat. That's too risky a batsman to have opening the innings.

[C_C]

Sehwag shold stop batting like a pinch-hitter and start batting like a proper batsman. Notice how few singles he's taking? He's not going to score more than nine if he doesn't run hard, even if he bats at number seven. Look at Laxman– often accused of not scoring enough in singles, scored more yesterday in runs between wickets than in boundaries, and played out more scoring shots than dot balls. Why can't Sehwag? Whatever is keeping Laxman out of the ODI side is seen more clearly in Sehwag!

You think Sehwag doesnt know that ? Obviously if you or I can see the flaw in his approach, Chappell can. Cricket is a mental game and often you struggle mentally when things arnt clicking or you are putting too much pressure on yourself.
I think Sehwag outpsyches himself trying to live up to his reputation and give India explosive starts. He needs a time out from that. He should come in at #3 for the next 15-20 matches to build his confidence. That way he wont have pressure to give India an explosive start and instead will be able to work with a stage built. It will be a good way to get the monkey off his back and come back to form plus find some confidence.

Yadav is a tricky new-ball bowler and he's done best when he's opened the bowling. However, he's often bowled with an old ball playing for India, and has struggled to get it to move. In comparison, Bangar is a steady medium-pacer who can do quite well with the old ball and can hold up one end. He's also a few k's faster than Yadav. He may only score 20 or 30 runs, but if it's an opening stand of over 50 at more than a run a ball, it's good. Moreover, he doesn't have to be a quality top-order batsman, but just an explosive Afridi-style pinch-hitter. He blends quite well with his opening partner Amit Pagnis, so if both open for India in ODI's, it can come off well.

Well Pagnis and bangar are not going to be opening together. Period. One spot is garanteed to Tendulkar for the next few years and why shouldnt it be ? We are talking about the most successful ODI opener in history of the game and in the top 3 alltime in the ODI batting stakes ( along with Viv and Bevan). He had a 'bad season' in his last full season and he averaged 40+ in that.
So it is Tendulkar + another guy for openening.
And IMO pinch hitter is never a good idea unless used for shock tactics.
With the IND ODI team in disarray and world cups less than 2 years away, IND has to find a successful combo quick and pinch hitter is not the way. THey invariably get figured out and even Jayasurya had to tone down his pinchitting ways.

I think Laxman would succeed despite his angled bat approach - the close catching cordon is not as opressive in ODIs and Laxman is in a good nick right now - if he is to succeed in a role, now would be the good time to introduce him to it, instead of jerking him around and expecting him to pull off a VVS special every 5th ODI he plays.
Laxman, like i said, prefers to be a stroke-maker. One reason he averages low in the ODIs is because his modus operandi is to stroke a few boundaries to get confidence and then step into gear, scoring boundaries and singles with aplomb. In ODIs, he has rarely had that luxury but he can afford to have that luxury if he opens the innings. Laxman now is a much improved player from the 90s and opening ODIs for a strokemaker like him is gonna be an easier job than opening in Tests - indeed, Mark Waugh would never have been considered for opening in Tests but he did excellently as an opener in ODIs. I believe it is time to drop Ganguly from the ODI team for good and give Laxman a go.

As for the new guns, well i have faith in them but in today's age, players need to be groomed properly for international duty or else they can have their confidence shattered pretty fast. VRV, RP Singh, Sree Santh etc. all need a few more seasons of FC cricket to hone their skills because they are all very very green right now.
Pathan was an exception case and then again, he had built up about 25 FC matches experience before he debuted. Let VRV/RP SIngh/Sree Santh do that, instead of playing musical chairs with a few greenhorns and shatter their confidence.
They can offer India so much more in the long run if they are groomed properly instead of trying to find a quick fix and satiate the 'i want a good bowler now' culture.

PS: Tendulkar's debut was not a 'dream debut' - he struggled in Tests for a couple of years and struggled in ODIs for a while

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by C_C

- nehra has improved a lot and i think he deserves an extended run as long as he is fit.

Nehra has always been very talented. The thing is he is perenially injured and plays (I dont approve players playing when not fit) in tremendous main and not at his best showing more than aptly on his stats.

[Arjun]

Well Pagnis and bangar are not going to be opening together. Period. One spot is garanteed to Tendulkar for the next few years and why shouldnt it be ?

What is wrong with Pagnis and Bangar opening? Sure, Tendulkar may be the best ODI opener in history, but in the last five years, there haven't been enough tournament victories to suggest that. Moreover, the middle-order is a bit shaky and given his new approach, he's better suited to four or five than opening. Moreover, with Sehwag hitting the low notes these days, he can take a break from ODI's and let these two do the job.

nd IMO pinch hitter is never a good idea unless used for shock tactics.
With the IND ODI team in disarray and world cups less than 2 years away, IND has to find a successful combo quick and pinch hitter is not the way. THey invariably get figured out and even Jayasurya had to tone down his pinchitting ways.

You mentioned shock tactics- that's exactly why this idea should be used. Bangar shouldn't be out there to get a big hundred in nearly every match. He should just smash what comes to him all around, while Pagnis goes ahead at an easy pace to a big score. Pinch-hitters are still used these days, with Gilchrist (having a superior technique helps), Afridi, Malik and Solanki scoring more than a few runs. If used well, they can be successful more often. You also said that the Indian ODI side is in disarray, so they cannot afford to ignore any idea and should keep all options open.

Let VRV/RP SIngh/Sree Santh do that, instead of playing musical chairs with a few greenhorns and shatter their confidence.

Agreed about the musical chairs bit, but you have to look at what kind of bowlers the Indian team needs and then accordingly pick prospects. There's no point picking a greenhorn swing bowler, because there's one too many. The team needs a tearaway pacer, so pick the best available, groom him for some time and play him in the national side, and guide im well, and also prepare the reserves. The team needs a decent seam bowler who can strike the ball hard consistently when he's batting, so pick one just for that. Identify who's good enough to be in the Indian team in the near future and then work accordingly to get him into the national side. It's good to see the North Zone selectors pick VR Singh and Joginder Sharma keeping this goal in mind.

He should come in at #3 for the next 15-20 matches to build his confidence. That way he wont have pressure to give India an explosive start and instead will be able to work with a stage built.

Why can't he come in as a first-strike opener for Delhi instead? That way, he can bat under even less pressure, and can be free to choose the balls off which he can take singles. There's no point carrying someone who's out of form if it's affecting the team.

[Dasa]

Originally Posted by Arjun

What is wrong with Pagnis and Bangar opening? Sure, Tendulkar may be the best ODI opener in history, but in the last five years, there haven't been enough tournament victories to suggest that. Moreover, the middle-order is a bit shaky and given his new approach, he's better suited to four or five than opening. Moreover, with Sehwag hitting the low notes these days, he can take a break from ODI's and let these two do the job.

One person cannot win your beloved tournaments. It's the team that's the problem, not Tendulkar.

Originally Posted by Arjun

You mentioned shock tactics- that's exactly why this idea should be used. Bangar shouldn't be out there to get a big hundred in nearly every match. He should just smash what comes to him all around, while Pagnis goes ahead at an easy pace to a big score. Pinch-hitters are still used these days, with Gilchrist (having a superior technique helps), Afridi, Malik and Solanki scoring more than a few runs. If used well, they can be successful more often. You also said that the Indian ODI side is in disarray, so they cannot afford to ignore any idea and should keep all options open.

Pinch-hitters are hardly used these days. Gilchrist is not a pinch-hitter, and I don't know what you're on about with his technique. He hardly has a good technique.
Afridi is mediocre, Malik is a batsman - not a pinch-hitter and Solanki has largely been useless, and again, is not a pinch-hitter.