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Thread: Some biased thoughts on the World XI

  1. #1
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    Some biased thoughts on the World XI

    from a probably unwanted New Zealand perspective.

    New Zealand has 1 player in the 14 man World XI ODI squad. Unsurprisingly, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh have none. South Africa has 3, and West Indies, India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and England all have 2. New Zealand has less players than every test-playing nation bar the two minnows.

    New Zealand is currently 3rd on the ODI rankings. This is no fluke. If anything, you could argue we deserve to be 2nd. In the last 2 years (since the start of the 2003/04 home season) we have played all 9 test playing nations once each. We have not lost an ODI series to anyone except Australia. In fact, we haven't even drawn one. We've thrashed South Africa, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. We've cruised to tri-series victories against West Indies and England, and India and Zimbabwe. We won our (unfortunately) 1-off game against Sri Lanka. We even drew a series against Australia, before, of course, being thumped 5-0. That is the only series or tournament we have failed to win in this period.

    As far as I'm concerned you can't just attribute this to "teamwork", "good coaching" or "attitude". We actually have some decent ODI players.

    * Shane Bond has taken over 50 ODI wickets at 17. He has the best strike rate AND average in ODI history. I fully understand why he wasn't picked in the first place, but he is so good that he almost warrants a late call-up.

    *Nathan Astle has 15 ODI hundreds over an 11 year career. He is far and away NZ's best ever ODI batsman. I don't think that Virender Sehwag's record gives him a compelling case to be selected ahead of Astle. I especially don't know if Kevin Pietersen really deserves it considering his brief flirtation with international cricket.

    *Shahid Afridi, imo, is perhaps the very symbol of the continuing ignorance towards NZ cricket. It is, frankly, offensive to suggest that New Zealand only have 1 ODI cricketer better than Afridi. Jacob Oram, imo, is almost certainly both a better batsman and a better bowler than Afridi. Scott Styris is perhaps not a realistic selection, but even he has a better record. Infact, Astle could take Afridi's bowling overs and be a hell of a lot better with the bat.

    Having said that, I can also think of several non NZers who deserve Afridi's spot.

    I don't necessarily believe all of my own crap, I'm just offering one way of looking at things which occurred to me when pondering some of the stranger World XI selections, and the glaring fact that NZ has less players in the team than any other competitive ODI nation, despite having perhaps the next best record to Australia in recent times.

    I also don't see why it is necessary to justify Daniel Vettori's selection by saying that he "has to carry a weak NZ attack". This is patently untrue in ODI cricket where pretty much every bowler we have used regularly in recent years has done a decent job. NZ does not need condescension and token selections ffs. We are beating everyone except Australia in one day cricket and it should be easy enough to find NZ players with ability.

  2. #2
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    btw, I really hope that the mods don't try to tell me that this belongs in the Super Series thread, but I don't hold out too much hope

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    New Zealand doesn't really have players who stand out. It is unfortunate that what is their strength when it comes to international cricket becomes their weakness when it comes to selections in such sides. They are not the most talented individuals around (Except for Bond and Vettori as bowlers and Fleming as captain) but they combine well and play their roles well. Unfortunately, such people will always be overlooked when selecting the best of the rest type sides. The FC team of Railways in India suffers a similar fate.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Burpey's Avatar
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    Spot on HB. NZ is a side where everyone usually contributes with no real stand outs besides Vettori and Bond. However, these weaknesses are shown up in Test cricket.


  5. #5
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burkey_1988
    Spot on HB. NZ is a side where everyone usually contributes with no real stand outs besides Vettori and Bond. However, these weaknesses are shown up in Test cricket.

    A common train of thought that most casual observers of NZ cricket share.

    It has only been in the last year or so that our test side have suffered. It all really started on that tour to England last june where every game was close but England won all 3 tests (and they deserved to) but we wern't that far away in all three tests and in fact that series was a battle for the number 3 position in the test rankings. Since then we have lost 5 tests to Australia, and beaten Sri Lanka 1-0.

    Our test side isn't that bad at full strength. (something it hasn't been for ages)

    1. Fleming
    2. Papps
    3. H Marshall
    4. Vincent/ McMillan/ Styris
    5. Astle
    6. Oram
    7. McCullum
    8. Vettori
    9. Franklin
    10.Bond
    11. Butler/ Martin/ Tuffey.

    Marshall, Oram, McCullum, Vettori and Franklin are all young and have the potential to be great players.

    Fleming and Astle are proven test class batsman and are more than useful.

    Bond is a freak and there is good competition for that last spot in the middle order.

    The only thing we lack is a new ball bowler to partner Bond. If we can find someone half decent then that side is quite strong. No one bar England and Aus would be likely to beat us at home.

  6. #6
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    oh god. This thread was supposed to point out some of these offensive and inane cliches regarding NZ cricket. Must it instead become a vehicle for them?

    NZ have succeeded in ODI cricket over the last 2 years via a collection of very good individual performances by good individual talents, the stats bear this out, your preconceptions do not.

    And at least half the time it's Oram/Mills/Tuffey/Styris who succeed with the ball in ODIs and not Vettori. Bond hasn't even played in most of the period mentioned.

  7. #7
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    It is not that weak but it isn't that strong either. The thing is, people remember performances when the going is really tough, like say when you are following on, and if such a situation happens, I don't think that batting line up has anyone who can really stand up and play a big knock.

  8. #8
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    It is not that weak but it isn't that strong either. The thing is, people remember performances when the going is really tough, like say when you are following on, and if such a situation happens, I don't think that batting line up has anyone who can really stand up and play a big knock.

    Fleming and Aslte have in the past. Oram's century at the GABBA was pretty decent?

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    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Oh btw Thierry, the original post in this thread was superb.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    They have, but how often? For some reason, I don't see too many "great" knocks from kiwi batsmen. I think your bowling is in better shape than your batting. Honestly, I don't think any of the guys you have put in as contenders for the no.4 slot would make the no.4 slot of any of the other sides.

  11. #11
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    It is not that weak but it isn't that strong either. The thing is, people remember performances when the going is really tough, like say when you are following on, and if such a situation happens, I don't think that batting line up has anyone who can really stand up and play a big knock.
    You don't follow on in ODIs.

    Please can we keep this discussion mostly focused on ODIs? I didn't mean to say anything about tests as I believe we are lucky to have 1 player in that team.

  12. #12
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    They have, but how often? For some reason, I don't see too many "great" knocks from kiwi batsmen. I think your bowling is in better shape than your batting. Honestly, I don't think any of the guys you have put in as contenders for the no.4 slot would make the no.4 slot of any of the other sides.
    Test match bowling is a concern

    ODI bowling has rarely been a problem, certainly not in recent years

  13. #13
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    They have, but how often? For some reason, I don't see too many "great" knocks from kiwi batsmen. I think your bowling is in better shape than your batting. Honestly, I don't think any of the guys you have put in as contenders for the no.4 slot would make the no.4 slot of any of the other sides.

    I reckon our batting is fine. Anyway back on topic.

  14. #14
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thierry henry
    Test match bowling is a concern

    ODI bowling has rarely been a problem, certainly not in recent years

    Apart from Mills at the death

  15. #15
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    Scott Styris's recent ODI history

    http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?s...ields=viewtype

    When has Afridi ever performed consistently that well?

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