Martyn dropped from test squad

[Robertinho]

Martyn shouldn't have been dropped at all, Katich would have been my #1 candidate.

Anyway, possible test team:
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Clarke
Katich
Watson
Gilchrist
Warne
Tait
McGrath
MacGill

ODI:
Gilchrist
Clarke
Ponting
Martyn
Symonds
Watson
Hussey
Hogg
Lee
Bracken
McGrath

Not sure about the ODI - embarrassed to say it but I don't know Hogg or Bracken that well.

 

[howardj]

When you think about it, there are invariably some very harsh calls made when the Australian team loses a series. Going back to 1996, Australia lost a one-off Test to India, and Michael Slater (averaging 47 at the time) was dumped. When Australia missed the finals of the VB tournament in 2001/02, the captain, Steve Waugh was dumped. When Australia lost to India in 2001, Justin Langer was dumped, despite averaging over 50 in Australia's streak of 16 straight Test wins (a streak which ended in that series). Put simply, it's the climate created by Australia losing a series, which results in players being axed, as much as the actual performance of the player themselves.

 

[greg]

When you think about it, there are invariably some very harsh calls made when the Australian team loses a series. Going back to 1996, Australia lost a one-off Test to India, and Michael Slater (averaging 47 at the time) was dumped. When Australia missed the finals of the VB tournament in 2001/02, the captain, Steve Waugh was dumped. When Australia lost to India in 2001, Justin Langer was dumped, despite averaging over 50 in Australia's streak of 16 straight Test wins (a streak which ended in that series). Put simply, it's the climate created by Australia losing a series, which results in players being axed, as much as the actual performance of the player themselves.

Wasn't Langer axed because he couldn't buy a run in the warm-up games on the 2001 Ashes tour? From memory he was expected to be in the first choice team. Basically he was given a chance to keep his place and didn't take it. They could have presumably given Martyn the same opportunity in the one off game vs RoW.

 

[howardj]

Wasn't Langer axed because he couldn't buy a run in the warm-up games on the 2001 Ashes tour? From memory he was expected to be in the first choice team.

still an incumbent with good form, in test matches, immediately prior to being dropped though. selectors just view things through a different prism after a series loss.

 

[greg]

still an incumbent with good form, in test matches, immediately prior to being dropped though. selectors just view things through a different prism after a series loss.

But in Langer's case, the fact that he was brought back in at the Oval suggests that it had far more to do with poor form.

 

[Slow Love™]

This is slightly O/T but isn't there an argument for saying that this Australian squad has basically killed the whole concept of the Super Series stone dead? It makes no sense unless Australia are picking their best team, and there can be no doubt that as things stand Martyn is part of Australia's best team.

FWIW it seems to me that the Australian selectors just don't like him and have jumped at the first opportunity to get rid of him. Of all the players who didn't perform in the Ashes it seemed to me that Martyn was the one most clearly in bad form, rather than having been "found out" or in long term decline. It was a classic formula, seen so many times before, of a batsman starting OK, getting a few dodgy decisions or inconsequential dismissals (the runout) and then failing to ever recover any sort of momentum.

I agree with all this - and Ian Chappell was cautioning the same thing a few days ago. The Super Series is meant to showcase the best vs the best, and not be used by the Aussie selectors as a tryout for new players. It undermines the entire concept.

And drastic measures or not, Martyn shouldn't have been the player to go. It would not surprise me in the slightest if he plays in the first test against WI.

 

[Nate]

Stuff Bracken, Watson.

But Martyn!

 

[howardj]

But in Langer's case, the fact that he was brought back in at the Oval suggests that it had far more to do with poor form.

youve lost me. i wasnt debating why they were dropped, just that they were, despite good for against international sides. never mind.

 

[Top_Cat]

The fact they dropped Martyn from the Test side, I think, is to put him on notice because on form, dropping him from Tests but keeping him in the ODI side is nonsensical. You get the feeling that there were a few more reasons other than performance for dropping him and keeping him in the ODI side seems like they've taken some sort of disciplinary measure because he was sawn-off in three innings in the series and when he did get a decent start, looked solid. It's possible a reason to the two soft dismissals in the second Test might have been noted, for example. I dunno, maybe he didn't appear cut up enough about it all. Certainly he wasn't playing a missing regularly like Hayden or getting out to the same sorts of deliveries like Gilchrist. A decent score, one got the feeling with Martyn, was only around the corner.

How on Earth does one player get 30 innings to score a Test ton and look pretty out of his depth all the way yet another has one bad series with plenty of bad luck to go with it and gets dropped? No, form is only one of the reasons I reckon. And picking Hopes, admittedly a decent prospect with the bat, for Hayden; WTF?

 

[greg]

youve lost me. i wasnt debating why they were dropped, just that they were, despite good for against international sides. never mind.

I got the impression that you were arguing that after every Aus defeat the selectors have sought to make some hard decisions as a result of that. (call it scapegoating if you like) My point was simply that this was not really the case in the example of Langer. He was not dropped because of what happened in India, because at the start of the England tour he was earmarked to be in the Aussie's first choice team. It was only when he hardly managed to score a run in the warm up games that he was replaced by someone who was scoring runs (ironically Martyn). It was probably more akin to Kaspa's replacement with Lee in this series.

 

[greg]

The fact they dropped Martyn from the Test side, I think, is to put him on notice because on form, dropping him from Tests but keeping him in the ODI side is nonsensical. You get the feeling that there were a few more reasons other than performance for dropping him and keeping him in the ODI side seems like they've taken some sort of disciplinary measure because he was sawn-off in three innings in the series and when he did get a decent start, looked solid. It's possible a reason to the two soft dismissals in the second Test might have been noted, for example. I dunno, maybe he didn't appear cut up enough about it all. Certainly he wasn't playing a missing regularly like Hayden or getting out to the same sorts of deliveries like Gilchrist. A decent score, one got the feeling with Martyn, was only around the corner.

How on Earth does one player get 30 innings to score a Test ton and look pretty out of his depth all the way yet another has one bad series with plenty of bad luck to go with it and gets dropped? No, form is only one of the reasons I reckon. And picking Hopes, admittedly a decent prospect with the bat, for Hayden; WTF?

He was sawn off twice, wasn't he? Are you including the runout?

 

[Top_Cat]

He was sawn off twice, wasn't he? Are you including the runout?

Nope. Wasn't the Hoggard LBW in the first dig of the 4th Test a dodgy one? I didn't see it, only heard about it. Might be mixing it up with something else.

 

[greg]

Nope. Wasn't the Hoggard LBW in the first dig of the 4th Test a dodgy one? I didn't see it, only heard about it. Might be mixing it up with something else.

Second innings at Old Trafford - Bucknor LBW, 1st innings at Trent bridge - Dar LBW.

What was the other?

 

[Linda]

One could probably guess I dont think his axing is particulary fair...

One thing I cant understand is why they showed such faith in him last year, when he was in the worst form of his life, then he has one bad series after 18 months of scoring centuries on auto-pilot and they sack him?! I dont get it.

Still, if they want to face an embarrassing defeat under the title of "Number 1 Team" then go right ahead...

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Remembering Martyn is 33 Lynda.

They obviously think he hasn't got much more than two years.

Big boost for WA though.

 

[Top_Cat]

Second innings at Old Trafford - Bucknor LBW, 1st innings at Trent bridge - Dar LBW.

What was the other?

I distinctly remember two dodgy LBW's to two shouts where he got inside nicks. Old Trafford, second dig, Bucknor the umpire maybe? Anyone else help me out? Becuase there were definitely two dodgy LBW's against him in the series.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I distinctly remember two dodgy LBW's to two shouts where he got inside nicks. Old Trafford, second dig, Bucknor the umpire maybe? Anyone else help me out? Becuase there were definitely two dodgy LBW's against him in the series.

Read what you just quoted and what you wrote.

 

[Slow Love™]

Second innings at Old Trafford - Bucknor LBW, 1st innings at Trent bridge - Dar LBW.

What was the other?

Didn't he say first innings of the 4th test? I thought it was the one where he and Ponting got LBW decisions in quick succession when they both edged it onto the pads. Ponting's was barely discernible, but Martyn's was pretty obvious, as far as I remember.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Didn't he say first innings of the 4th test? I thought it was the one where he and Ponting got LBW decisions in quick succession when they both edged it onto the pads. Ponting's was barely discernible, but Martyn's was pretty obvious, as far as I remember.

That's the Trent Bridge one.

 

[Slow Love™]

That's the Trent Bridge one.

LOL, this is like an Abbott and Costello sketch.

Yes, yes it is. 4th test, right?