Pedro Delgado
International Debutant
No pressure on Jonah then.
It's amazing how in the last year Flintoff has turned himself from a batting all rounder into a bowling all rounder.age_master said:other way round for me too
I'm not sure he was ever a batting allrounder (except arguably at the very start of his career, although he didn't get any runs). For most of his earlier career (before he really began to excel) it was his bowling that sustained him in the team. It is true that he first made any sort of "breakthrough" with his batting with his century in NZ and then the home series vs South Africa in 2003. His breakthrough as a wicket taking bowler didn't come until the Windies tour the next winter. However he was very important to England as a bowler long before that (obviously this did partly reflect the paucity of resources), the most obvious evidence being the extent that Hussain bowled him into the ground in the Indian series of 2002.pskov said:It's amazing how in the last year Flintoff has turned himself from a batting all rounder into a bowling all rounder.
series averages of 52,71 and 59 thereafter are not exactly representative of someone who made it into the side as a bowling allrounder. flintoff always made the side for his explosive batting time after time. his bowling had 2 major breakthroughs, the first one was just after his hernia operation when he came from nowhere in the world cup and produced the most accurate we'd seen from him at the time. after that series he was at least known to be accurate without having any real tools with the ball to get wickets in test match cricket. his 2nd breakthrough as a bowler which really made him a better bowler than batsman was in the summer of 2004 when he improved on his seam and wrist position and looked like a far better bowler and started to take wickets consistently.greg said:I'm not sure he was ever a batting allrounder (except arguably at the very start of his career, although he didn't get any runs). For most of his earlier career (before he really began to excel) it was his bowling that sustained him in the team. It is true that he first made any sort of "breakthrough" with his batting with his century in NZ and then the home series vs South Africa in 2003. His breakthrough as a wicket taking bowler didn't come until the Windies tour the next winter. However he was very important to England as a bowler long before that (obviously this did partly reflect the paucity of resources), the most obvious evidence being the extent that Hussain bowled him into the ground in the Indian series of 2002.
It's going to be a while until we can sign off on that third one !simmy said:1. England will be the best side in the World in Tests
2. India best ODI side within next 3 years
3. Simon Jones to have a bowling average of less than 24 by end of his career.
Or he might bowl less well than he bowled in The Ashes.tooextracool said:Simon Jones will be the best pace bowler in the world in less than 2 years......only injury can stop him.
And quite conceivably in Pakistan if Kaneria, Saqlain and Mushtaq play and bowl to something close to their normal standard and the pitches suit spin.Flintoff will fail with the bat in India.
How will we know that until he faces an attack containing more than 2 particularly accurate bowlers?Pedro Delgado said:His patience with the bat has impressed me too, he's not just a blazer anymore.
If he bowls as he did in The Ashes (or maybe even better) it's almost a certainty.Pedro Delgado said:No pressure on Jonah then.
Not many attacks over the years have had more than 2 accurate bowlers.Richard said:How will we know that until he faces an attack containing more than 2 particularly accurate bowlers?
I know it now. He's more patient now.Richard said:How will we know that until he faces an attack containing more than 2 particularly accurate bowlers?
Well most teams throughout the course of the 1990s did and so did several teams in the 1980s and 1970s.honestbharani said:Not many attacks over the years have had more than 2 accurate bowlers.
We know he's more patient than he was 1998-2002. And that's all.Pedro Delgado said:I know it now. He's more patient now.
i cant see him do that to be honest, unless he isnt fully fit. bowlers dont get worse over time unless they get injured or get old, neither of which is going to happen. simon jones has far more potential than any other up and coming fast bowler i've seen in a very long time, and theres no reason why he shouldnt succeed.Richard said:Or he might bowl less well than he bowled in The Ashes.
and the odds of 2 out of 3 of those players playing in a test match is in itself very very slim let alone everything else happening.Richard said:And quite conceivably in Pakistan if Kaneria, Saqlain and Mushtaq play and bowl to something close to their normal standard and the pitches suit spin.
harmisons talent doesnt come even come into the same picture when you compare him to jones. Jones by and large was unplayable in the series, harmison rarely has ever had such a series. the ability to reverse and conventionally swing a ball both ways at nearly 90 mph is something that we havent seen since waqar younis and wasim akram in their very prime, the only thing im worried about is that he'll end up being the next dion nash.Richard said:Remember how everyone was raving about Harmison in July 2004...? Now it's perfectly conceivable that he'll be out of the side (in Tests at least) by next summer.
Of course, everyone was raving about Harmison after 7 Tests where he didn't bowl particularly well... Jones at least bowled by-and-large superbly in The Ashes.
That should bode well for the batting community.tooextracool said:harmisons talent doesnt come even come into the same picture when you compare him to jones. Jones by and large was unplayable in the series, harmison rarely has ever had such a series. the ability to reverse and conventionally swing a ball both ways at nearly 90 mph is something that we havent seen since waqar younis and wasim akram in their very prime, the only thing im worried about is that he'll end up being the next dion nash.