"You can quote me on this........"

[Pedro Delgado]

No pressure on Jonah then.

 

[pskov]

other way round for me too

It's amazing how in the last year Flintoff has turned himself from a batting all rounder into a bowling all rounder.

 

[marc71178]

Makes me wonder what he actually is at this stage?

 

[greg]

It's amazing how in the last year Flintoff has turned himself from a batting all rounder into a bowling all rounder.

I'm not sure he was ever a batting allrounder (except arguably at the very start of his career, although he didn't get any runs). For most of his earlier career (before he really began to excel) it was his bowling that sustained him in the team. It is true that he first made any sort of "breakthrough" with his batting with his century in NZ and then the home series vs South Africa in 2003. His breakthrough as a wicket taking bowler didn't come until the Windies tour the next winter. However he was very important to England as a bowler long before that (obviously this did partly reflect the paucity of resources), the most obvious evidence being the extent that Hussain bowled him into the ground in the Indian series of 2002.

In the one-day game, where 'wicket-taking' is arguably no more important that being economical it was clear that he was worth his place as a bowler long before he started to contribute as a batsman (where after encouraging signs in the World Cup he didn't really make a breakthrough until playing as a specialist batsman in the Natwest series of 2004)

 

[tooextracool]

I'm not sure he was ever a batting allrounder (except arguably at the very start of his career, although he didn't get any runs). For most of his earlier career (before he really began to excel) it was his bowling that sustained him in the team. It is true that he first made any sort of "breakthrough" with his batting with his century in NZ and then the home series vs South Africa in 2003. His breakthrough as a wicket taking bowler didn't come until the Windies tour the next winter. However he was very important to England as a bowler long before that (obviously this did partly reflect the paucity of resources), the most obvious evidence being the extent that Hussain bowled him into the ground in the Indian series of 2002.

series averages of 52,71 and 59 thereafter are not exactly representative of someone who made it into the side as a bowling allrounder. flintoff always made the side for his explosive batting time after time. his bowling had 2 major breakthroughs, the first one was just after his hernia operation when he came from nowhere in the world cup and produced the most accurate we'd seen from him at the time. after that series he was at least known to be accurate without having any real tools with the ball to get wickets in test match cricket. his 2nd breakthrough as a bowler which really made him a better bowler than batsman was in the summer of 2004 when he improved on his seam and wrist position and looked like a far better bowler and started to take wickets consistently.

 

[sqwerty]

1. England will be the best side in the World in Tests
2. India best ODI side within next 3 years
3. Simon Jones to have a bowling average of less than 24 by end of his career.

It's going to be a while until we can sign off on that third one !

 

[Pedro Delgado]

I still hold Fred as an accurate seamer, who keeps an end tidy and takes the odd wicket. It's only last series where he developed reverse swing that he's looked more dangerous and is being held up as a striker; if the ball doesn't swing/reverse he'll be an accurate seamer again. Which is all good I'm not chewing. His patience with the bat has impressed me too, he's not just a blazer anymore.

 

[Richard]

Simon Jones will be the best pace bowler in the world in less than 2 years......only injury can stop him.

Or he might bowl less well than he bowled in The Ashes.

Flintoff will fail with the bat in India.

And quite conceivably in Pakistan if Kaneria, Saqlain and Mushtaq play and bowl to something close to their normal standard and the pitches suit spin.

 

[Richard]

His patience with the bat has impressed me too, he's not just a blazer anymore.

How will we know that until he faces an attack containing more than 2 particularly accurate bowlers?

 

[Richard]

No pressure on Jonah then.

If he bowls as he did in The Ashes (or maybe even better) it's almost a certainty.
What, of course, isn't a certainty is that he'll bowl as said.
Remember how everyone was raving about Harmison in July 2004...? Now it's perfectly conceivable that he'll be out of the side (in Tests at least) by next summer.
Of course, everyone was raving about Harmison after 7 Tests where he didn't bowl particularly well... Jones at least bowled by-and-large superbly in The Ashes.

 

[honestbharani]

How will we know that until he faces an attack containing more than 2 particularly accurate bowlers?

Not many attacks over the years have had more than 2 accurate bowlers.

 

[krishneelz]

1. ganguly dropped in the next 3 months
2. warne retires in the next 3 months
3. akthar gets injured in the next 3 months
4. lara gets a golden duck in the next 3 months
5. the super series is no super series without tendulkar and marto and this will be realised during the next 3 months

 

[howardj]

My not so big prediction is that if Hayden fails in the SuperTest, he will never play Test cricket again.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

How will we know that until he faces an attack containing more than 2 particularly accurate bowlers?

I know it now. He's more patient now.

 

[NZTailender]

1. Bond will take 15 wickets in the ODI series v South Africa.
2. Hamish Marshall will hit a century v South Africa in the tests in April of 2006.
3. Fleming will get at least 2 50's but no 100's.
4. Brett lee will take exactly 4 wickets over the two innings of the Super Test (providing he does play).

Please think up some humiliating forum punishment for this if I'm wrong. Avatar or signature related, obviousley

 

[Richard]

Not many attacks over the years have had more than 2 accurate bowlers.

Well most teams throughout the course of the 1990s did and so did several teams in the 1980s and 1970s.

 

[Richard]

I know it now. He's more patient now.

We know he's more patient than he was 1998-2002. And that's all.

 

[tooextracool]

Or he might bowl less well than he bowled in The Ashes.

i cant see him do that to be honest, unless he isnt fully fit. bowlers dont get worse over time unless they get injured or get old, neither of which is going to happen. simon jones has far more potential than any other up and coming fast bowler i've seen in a very long time, and theres no reason why he shouldnt succeed.

And quite conceivably in Pakistan if Kaneria, Saqlain and Mushtaq play and bowl to something close to their normal standard and the pitches suit spin.

and the odds of 2 out of 3 of those players playing in a test match is in itself very very slim let alone everything else happening.
the odds however of harbhajan and kumble bowling well in tandem on turners is not only more daunting but also more likely.

 

[tooextracool]

Remember how everyone was raving about Harmison in July 2004...? Now it's perfectly conceivable that he'll be out of the side (in Tests at least) by next summer.
Of course, everyone was raving about Harmison after 7 Tests where he didn't bowl particularly well... Jones at least bowled by-and-large superbly in The Ashes.

harmisons talent doesnt come even come into the same picture when you compare him to jones. Jones by and large was unplayable in the series, harmison rarely has ever had such a series. the ability to reverse and conventionally swing a ball both ways at nearly 90 mph is something that we havent seen since waqar younis and wasim akram in their very prime, the only thing im worried about is that he'll end up being the next dion nash.

 

[honestbharani]

harmisons talent doesnt come even come into the same picture when you compare him to jones. Jones by and large was unplayable in the series, harmison rarely has ever had such a series. the ability to reverse and conventionally swing a ball both ways at nearly 90 mph is something that we havent seen since waqar younis and wasim akram in their very prime, the only thing im worried about is that he'll end up being the next dion nash.

That should bode well for the batting community.