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Australia's Post Ashes Blueprint
- Thread starter howardj
- Start date
howardj
International Coach
Anyway, back to Australia's future team, here's a squad of 13 that Damien Fleming - in the latest edition of Inside Cricket - thinks may tour England in 2009:
(in batting order)
Callum Ferguson
Phil Jacques
Ricky Ponting
Michael Clarke
Simon Katich
Shane Watson
Adam Crosthwaite (w/k)
Cameron White
Moses Henriques
Brett Lee
Dan Cullen
Shaun Tait
Nathan Bracken
My only observation is that I hope the fast bowling has evolved a little more by then. Can't see Lee or Bracken making it, to be honest.
(in batting order)
Callum Ferguson
Phil Jacques
Ricky Ponting
Michael Clarke
Simon Katich
Shane Watson
Adam Crosthwaite (w/k)
Cameron White
Moses Henriques
Brett Lee
Dan Cullen
Shaun Tait
Nathan Bracken
My only observation is that I hope the fast bowling has evolved a little more by then. Can't see Lee or Bracken making it, to be honest.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
Lee will be there, Tait i doubt - i have a feeling he will be injury prone. Bracken will be around, hopefully someone better will be there though. Henriques will be like 23 at that stage. im still gonna back Ronchi over Crosthwaite too
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
at this stage i'm 70% sure that a Mr.M Hussey will be here in 2009, and why dont you think Lee & Bracken wont make it, if they dont go what kind of bowling attack Australia will be coming with in 4 years, you want a established English batting line-up to have a field day come on mayn..howardj said:
My possibe Ashes 16 for 2009 at this stage:
Jaques
Hussey
Ponting
Clarke
Katich
Watson
North - Ferguson/Marsh/Simpson/D.Hussey
Haddin - Keeper 1
Hartley - Keeper 2 or (Ronchi/Crosthwaite) - It will be interesting to see how these blokes come along in the next 4 years
White
Cullen
Lee
Tait
Bracken
Johnson
Bird - his progress in the next 4 years will be keenly observed if all goes well he should make the squad i would think
note: Langer should be watched ya never know he could well & hold out & be the veteran 38 year old opener come 2009
, & Dizzy even though he'll be 34 thenbtw who is this Henriques bloke all i know he's from tasmania???
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howardj
International Coach
Firstly, Bracken is not even in the team, at present. Furthermore, he looked a little out of his depth against the Indians two summers ago. Im not all convinced that he can swing the red ball, in anything other than the most favourable of conditions. Regarding Lee, he is nothing special. In Tests post-2000 he averages 40. In his 10 Tests before his 18 months out of the side, he averaged 40; and in the Ashes he averaged 40. By 2009, I don't think he will be anywhere near as fast. And, without pace, he doesn't have much. Finally, Henriques is an allrounder who hails from NSW. Don't know much more than that.aussie said:
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
well Bracken is in the ODI team now so well see how he goes & if he has improved because i remember him getting the new-ball t swing plenting of times into the right handers in the 2003 series but he just wasn't consistent enough with his line, i would definately back him to be here in 2009.howardj said:
Lee could never have averaged 40 in his test post 2000 because he only played 1 test in 99
(which was his debut at the MCG). Definately if you watched how Lee has bowled in the pastto the ashes you would have realised that his averaged doesn't trully reflect how well he bowled overall but their were good sign & he can improve, mate you should be backing him to improve on the good signs he showed over here not disregard him like that.He may well & lose a few yards of pace come 2009 but i cant see him being out of the team....
Henriques is a total unknown to me, i've never heard anyone talk about him dawg so for Mr.Fleming to predict him coming here in 2009 is a bit odd....
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I can't see Lee being in the team in 2006 let alone 2009.aussie said:well Bracken is in the ODI team now so well see how he goes & if he has improved because i remember him getting the new-ball t swing plenting of times into the right handers in the 2003 series but he just wasn't consistent enough with his line, i would definately back him to be here in 2009.
Lee could never have averaged 40 in his test post 2000 because he only played 1 test in 99
He may well & lose a few yards of pace come 2009 but i cant see him being out of the team....
Henriques is a total unknown to me, i've never heard anyone talk about him dawg so for Mr.Fleming to predict him coming here in 2009 is a bit odd....
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No I'm serious. IMO Brett Lee's contribution to the Ashes series is so over-rated it is not funny. You cannot ignore the facts. Since his 7th test, in no calander year has he averaged under 30. Despite what you may say about how he performed after he returned from injury, there is plenty there to suggest that it is a pattern and not a slump. His best returns (in terms of bowling figures) came on debut, and it isn't like he took 7 or 8 wickets on debut. He took 5! He has only got 5 wickets in an innings 3 times, and two of those came in his first 7 tests. Since the 'aura' about how quick he is was dispatched he has been nothing short of pathetic. Two lengthed, expensive and has bowled 'dumb' more times than I care to remember.aussie said:
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
1. I dont think it s over-rated the way he's been defended can be justified he has bowled better, the time in this series that he looked like the Brett Lee of Old in test cricket was in the 1st innings at edgbagston, he also was shabby in the 1st innings at TB but other than that he was pretty good, so i disagree thats it a pattern, Lee showed definate signs to me that he can be better in test i dont expect him to be super consistent but better than he used to be.Mister Wright said:
2. That was before he bowled bo where close to that in any period of the test seires except for Edgbagston, come Kyle cut Brett some slack...
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Why should I cut him some slack? I find it very hard for a bowler to go through a series and average 40 and to have shown some signs of improvement. If a player has an unlucky series they average 35, when they have a poor series they average 40+ which is what Lee averaged.aussie said:
How can you say it is not a pattern, look at these stats for his series average since his 7th test, notice a pattern yet?
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in Australia, 1999/00 [Series]
Aus 2 69 184 13 5/47 7/78 14.15 2.66 31.8 1 0
Trans-Tasman Trophy (Aus/NZ) in New Zealand, 1999/00 [Series]
Aus 3 100.4 314 18 5/77 8/123 17.44 3.11 33.5 1 0
The Frank Worrell Trophy (Aus/WI) in Australia, 2000/01 [Series]
Aus 2 59.1 177 11 5/61 7/113 16.09 2.99 32.2 1 0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2001 [Series]
Aus 5 120.5 496 9 2/37 2/60 55.11 4.10 80.5 0 0
Trans-Tasman Trophy (Aus/NZ) in Australia, 2001/02 [Series]
- 3 100.5 352 14 5/67 8/181 25.14 3.49 43.2 1 0
South Africa in Australia, 2001/02 [Series]
Aus 3 105 314 9 3/77 5/129 34.88 2.99 70.0 0 0
Australia in South Africa, 2001/02 [Series]
Aus 3 95.2 416 10 4/82 4/157 41.60 4.36 57.2 0 0
Australia v Pakistan Test Series in Sri Lanka/U.A.E., 2002/03 [Series]
Aus 3 66.5 234 5 2/15 3/31 46.80 3.50 80.2 0 0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in Australia, 2002/03 [Series]
Aus 3 144.4 536 13 3/78 5/150 41.23 3.70 66.7 0 0
The Frank Worrell Trophy (Aus/WI) in West Indies, 2002/03 [Series]
Aus 4 144.3 491 17 4/63 7/135 28.88 3.39 51.0 0 0
Bangladesh in Australia, 2003 [Series]
Aus 2 49.2 190 6 3/23 4/57 31.66 3.85 49.3 0 0
Southern Cross Trophy (Aus/Zim) in Australia, 2003/04 [Series]
Aus 2 73 222 6 3/48 4/144 37.00 3.04 73.0 0 0
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in Australia, 2003/04 [Series]
- 2 100.5 476 8 4/201 4/200 59.50 4.72 75.6 0 0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
Eng 5 191.1 822 20 4/82 5/105 41.10 4.29 57.3 0 0
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Couldn't agree more. You can't keep getting selected on potential alone. There comes a point where potential must be turned into performance, and Lee hasn't done that since his early tests. And if he continues with his pattern he should be banished from test cricket forever.Dasa said:
Pedro Delgado
International Debutant
Why can't people just accept Lee will never have an excellent average, will never take bucket-loads of wickets (unless the pitch is a minefield)? He's a gutsy, lively bowler but he's had enough chances now, I can't see him improving to the level you all desire for him; so I reckon one should either accept it and stick with him, or just drop him and go with the Taitmeister.
As an ENG fan I know Hoggy will run in all day if required, will get wickets in swinging conditions, get bugger all wickets without them, and will most probably end up with an average of 30 at the back of it all; I accept it.
As an ENG fan I know Hoggy will run in all day if required, will get wickets in swinging conditions, get bugger all wickets without them, and will most probably end up with an average of 30 at the back of it all; I accept it.
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