Team Of The Ashes

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 05:02 PM

I probably could/should have posted this in the official thread, but there are about 20 Ashes threads on the first 3 pages of CC anyway, and I fear this may get the lost in the seven or eight topics already being discussed in the official thread.

Anyway...

1. JL Langer
2. ME Trescothick
3. RT Ponting
4. MP Vaughan*
5. KP Pietersen
6. A Flintoff
7. GO Jones+
8. SK Warne
9. MJ Hoggard
10. SP Jones
11. GD McGrath

12. GJ Pratt

Openers
Hardest position to chose, really. Despite his hundred in the last match, I think we can rule out Hayden, but that leaves three to choose from. Trescothick, despite not scoring a hundred, was very reliable with the bat, always getting off to a start and notching up three fifties. Strauss failed a few times, and struggled against Warne at times, but to his credit, he went on when he made a start, and made two good hundreds. Langer was Australia's best batsman IMO. He opened the batting against a very good attack and can hold his head up high after a good series. His fighting nature proved vital for the Australian cause. Ive gone for Langer and Trescothick, but I wouldnt argue with Strauss over either of them.

Three And Four
These two were pretty easy to choose really. Bell and Martyn had very poor series, and while Vaughan was inconsistant, he played some good knocks. Ponting's heroics to save a match cant be forgotten either, and despite some poor captaincy, he had a reasonable series with the bat. Vaughan and Ponting are the only options.

Number Five - Clarke vs Pietersen
Clarke suprised me by having a pretty good series. If it wasnt for his back injury, he would have averaged over 40, which is a good effort against this attack. They are pretty similar batsmen, and up until the 5th day of the 5th test, I would have gone for Clarke, but Pietersen's innings was brilliant, so he deserves his spot.

Number Six..
Flintoff here - no question. Im sure I wont find any arguements for this.

Wicket Keeper
I went with Jones here. Gilchrist had a very poor series by his standards, and I was impressed with Jones at times, espeically his 80 odd. Both ended up with mid-20s averages and both had poor series with the gloves, which makes me want to pick Haddin simply for the fact that he did nothing wrong. This one's pretty tough, as both players were awful at times, but I think it has to go to Jones.

Spinner
Warne vs Giles. Enough said.

Quicks
McGrath and Jones are automatic picks in my eyes, which really leaves Lee, Harmison and Hoggard to fight out the last two spots. Lee was good in patches, but never really brilliant, and despite looking dangerous at times, he just never took the wickets he needed. This series is a perfect example of why an in-form Kasprowicz was picked over Lee. He looks dangerous, but he never really capitalises for one reason or another. Commentators continually said that he "bowled better than his average suggests" but the fact remains that he didnt capitalise on his good bowling spells. So that leaves the reliable Hoggard against the one-innings wonder Harmison. Harmison was unplayable in the first innings at Lords, but got into a flat patch afterwards and never really delivered, while Hoggard shock off some poor form to act as a good support bowler. I went with Hoggard in the end, due to consistancy and steady improvement, but I wouldnt really argue with having Harmison in.

steds · 12-09-2005, 05:08 PM

The only difference I'd have is Strauss for Langer

aussie · 12-09-2005, 05:12 PM

agreed with your comments on Lee but i think he has bowled slighty better than Hoggard who been that spectacular with the ball this series aslo Bing's his batting heriocs speaks for itself...

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steds

The only difference I'd have is Strauss for Langer

As I said, it was a toss up with the openers. I wouldnt argue with Strauss.

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie

agreed with your comments on Lee but i think he has bowled slighty better than Hoggard who been that spectacular with the ball this series aslo Bing's his batting heriocs speaks for itself...

Bowling well is only part of it - you have to take wickets cheaply to be effective, which Lee hasnt done.

aussie · 12-09-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Bowling well is only part of it - you have to take wickets cheaply to be effective, which Lee hasnt done.

has hoggard done either.....

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie

has hoggard done either.....

You seem to be underrating Hoggard's performances. He took 16 wickets @ 29.56 with a strike rate better than Flintoff's. Not his best series, but he came away with good returns, especially considering his poor form early on.

simmy · 12-09-2005, 05:37 PM

That side is excellent but personally I would have had Strauss over Langer simply because Warne wouldnt be bowling to him if both are in this side! Warne was the only obstacle for Strauss having a truly sensational series.

cameeel · 12-09-2005, 05:42 PM

My Team

1. Strauss
2. Langer
3. Vaughn
4. Ponting
5. Pieterson
6. Flintoff
7. Gilchrist (keeping)
8. Warne
9. Lee
10. Jones
11. McGrath

12. Harmison

6-5 Aussies to Poms

aussie · 12-09-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

You seem to be underrating Hoggard's performances. He took 16 wickets @ 29.56 with a strike rate better than Flintoff's. Not his best series, but he came away with good returns, especially considering his poor form early on.

not underating hoggy's bowling performance but i think you have to look beyond that with their respective batting & lee has done better with the bat so i'd have him over hoggard.

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie

not underating hoggy's bowling performance but i think you have to look beyond that with their respective batting & lee has done better with the bat so i'd have him over hoggard.

And Strauss has batted better than them both - I dont see him getting picked as the 3rd quick.

Pick bowlers on their bowling, not their batting.

Neil Pickup · 12-09-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie

not underating hoggy's bowling performance but i think you have to look beyond that with their respective batting & lee has done better with the bat so i'd have him over hoggard.

Suggest you pick Katich instead of Jones, too. You can't put a frontline seamer in a team of the series based on 20 wickets at an average of 41.10. Period.

Would add Gary Pratt as twelfth man...

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Would add Gary Pratt as twelfth man...

Hahaha! Brillaint!

social · 12-09-2005, 06:04 PM

You cannot seriously include Hoggard at the expense of either Harmy or Lee.

Hoggard has the easiest job in cricket. He literally only bowls with the new ball or when conditions are favourable.

Imagine if McGrath had the benefit of the same - his career average would be nudging single figures.

Prince EWS · 12-09-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by social

You cannot seriously include Hoggard at the expense of either Harmy or Lee.

Hoggard has the easiest job in cricket. He literally only bowls with the new ball or when conditions are favourable.

Imagine if McGrath had the benefit of the same - his career average would be nudging single figures.

I dont see how Lee would even figure in the conversation. He averaged over 40 AGAIN this series.

Harmison bowled with the same new ball in the same conditions as Hoggard this series, so I dont see how Hoggard's job is any easier...

12-09-2005, 05:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Prince EWS Global Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New South Wales Posts: 37,707	Team Of The Ashes I probably could/should have posted this in the official thread, but there are about 20 Ashes threads on the first 3 pages of CC anyway, and I fear this may get the lost in the seven or eight topics already being discussed in the official thread. Anyway... 1. JL Langer 2. ME Trescothick 3. RT Ponting 4. MP Vaughan* 5. KP Pietersen 6. A Flintoff 7. GO Jones+ 8. SK Warne 9. MJ Hoggard 10. SP Jones 11. GD McGrath 12. GJ Pratt Openers Hardest position to chose, really. Despite his hundred in the last match, I think we can rule out Hayden, but that leaves three to choose from. Trescothick, despite not scoring a hundred, was very reliable with the bat, always getting off to a start and notching up three fifties. Strauss failed a few times, and struggled against Warne at times, but to his credit, he went on when he made a start, and made two good hundreds. Langer was Australia's best batsman IMO. He opened the batting against a very good attack and can hold his head up high after a good series. His fighting nature proved vital for the Australian cause. Ive gone for Langer and Trescothick, but I wouldnt argue with Strauss over either of them. Three And Four These two were pretty easy to choose really. Bell and Martyn had very poor series, and while Vaughan was inconsistant, he played some good knocks. Ponting's heroics to save a match cant be forgotten either, and despite some poor captaincy, he had a reasonable series with the bat. Vaughan and Ponting are the only options. Number Five - Clarke vs Pietersen Clarke suprised me by having a pretty good series. If it wasnt for his back injury, he would have averaged over 40, which is a good effort against this attack. They are pretty similar batsmen, and up until the 5th day of the 5th test, I would have gone for Clarke, but Pietersen's innings was brilliant, so he deserves his spot. Number Six.. Flintoff here - no question. Im sure I wont find any arguements for this. Wicket Keeper I went with Jones here. Gilchrist had a very poor series by his standards, and I was impressed with Jones at times, espeically his 80 odd. Both ended up with mid-20s averages and both had poor series with the gloves, which makes me want to pick Haddin simply for the fact that he did nothing wrong. This one's pretty tough, as both players were awful at times, but I think it has to go to Jones. Spinner Warne vs Giles. Enough said. Quicks McGrath and Jones are automatic picks in my eyes, which really leaves Lee, Harmison and Hoggard to fight out the last two spots. Lee was good in patches, but never really brilliant, and despite looking dangerous at times, he just never took the wickets he needed. This series is a perfect example of why an in-form Kasprowicz was picked over Lee. He looks dangerous, but he never really capitalises for one reason or another. Commentators continually said that he "bowled better than his average suggests" but the fact remains that he didnt capitalise on his good bowling spells. So that leaves the reliable Hoggard against the one-innings wonder Harmison. Harmison was unplayable in the first innings at Lords, but got into a flat patch afterwards and never really delivered, while Hoggard shock off some poor form to act as a good support bowler. I went with Hoggard in the end, due to consistancy and steady improvement, but I wouldnt really argue with having Harmison in. __________________ ~ Cribbage Last edited by Prince EWS; 12-09-2005 at 05:49 PM.

12-09-2005, 05:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
cameeel International Captain Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,902	My Team 1. Strauss 2. Langer 3. Vaughn 4. Ponting 5. Pieterson 6. Flintoff 7. Gilchrist (keeping) 8. Warne 9. Lee 10. Jones 11. McGrath 12. Harmison 6-5 Aussies to Poms __________________ Proud Member of the Melbourne Demons ,'97,'98,'99,'05-'13 Supporter of Melbourne Demons FC, Aston Villa FC, and the Flyers "This tournament is a joke. Grass is for cows, I'm never coming back." - Marat Safin

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12-09-2005, 05:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
steds Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Riding public transport back and forth Posts: 16,914	The only difference I'd have is Strauss for Langer

12-09-2005, 05:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
aussie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cricket Posts: 16,845	agreed with your comments on Lee but i think he has bowled slighty better than Hoggard who been that spectacular with the ball this series aslo Bing's his batting heriocs speaks for itself...

12-09-2005, 05:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
simmy International Regular Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kent, England Posts: 3,039	That side is excellent but personally I would have had Strauss over Langer simply because Warne wouldnt be bowling to him if both are in this side! Warne was the only obstacle for Strauss having a truly sensational series.

12-09-2005, 06:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
social International Coach Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: AUSTRALIA Posts: 11,053	You cannot seriously include Hoggard at the expense of either Harmy or Lee. Hoggard has the easiest job in cricket. He literally only bowls with the new ball or when conditions are favourable. Imagine if McGrath had the benefit of the same - his career average would be nudging single figures.

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