Fair enough Freddy....I eat my words

[superkingdave]

If chapple had played a few ODI's or a test or so a few years ago, i don't think he would have done any worse than some of the players England have picked over the years.

[tooextracool]

As someone who's always labelled Flintoff as an overated Test cricketer, I like to say for the record he's proved me totally wrong.

Against the best opposition under the extreme pressure and expectation he's been nothing short of outstanding !!!

I always thought he'd be more than handy with the ball, but thought the Aussies would find weaknesses in his batting technique. Obviously this hasn't happened, therefore time for me to eat my words.

Well done Flintoff !!!!

As for my pre-ashes prediction of 4-5 nil to Australia.......Another red face

one of your best posts.
all sarcasm aside, good on you for admitting that you got this one wrong.

[tooextracool]

Flintoff, for mine, is in the top 5-10 bowlers in the world right now.

thered be a strong argument as to why he isnt in the top 5 at the moment. i can see the case for 3 bowlers being better than him-mcgrath, warne and murali.

[tooextracool]

Flintoff is a very good bowler but he has to start taking bags of wickets more consistently before he can be considered the second best seamer in the world. He has a tendancy to bowl a really good spell, get one wicket and then go off again after 5 overs because Vaughan doesn't want to overwork him. That's fine, but it means he's never going to rip through sides the way someone like Shoaib can.

theres no point in ripping through sides if you cant do it fairly regularly.

[tooextracool]

Personally, I'd take Simon Jones or Stephen Harmison over Flintoff if we're looking purely at the bowling aspect...

cant see how harmison is as good as flintoff, relies too much on the wicket. jones is a completely different story, because assuming he doesnt get injured, i'd be extremely surprised if he isnt in the top 2-3 bowlers in the world in a few years. swinging the new ball and the old balls both ways at 90 mph is something very very rare indeed.

[twctopcat]

Hope Freddy gets down to the no pants dance a bit more soon with his lovely wife. Only has the one daughter and i dont't want his prized genes going to the waste. Either that or clone the hero.

[FaaipDeOiad]

theres no point in ripping through sides if you cant do it fairly regularly.

Why not? It wins matches.

The point is that taking 3/60 from 15 overs or whatever is a good effort but it's not going to turn a game on its head.

[vic_orthdox]

Why not? It wins matches.

The point is that taking 3/60 from 15 overs or whatever is a good effort but it's not going to turn a game on its head.

It isn't ALWAYS going to have turned a game on its head, but it could well have.

[FaaipDeOiad]

It isn't ALWAYS going to have turned a game on its head, but it could well have.

Yeah well, it could concievably, but really I think almost all of the time a team can recover from losing three wickets. I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't do it mind you, because Flintoff certainly bowls well enough to take bags of wickets, but the fact that he's been among the best bowlers in this series and yet doesn't have a 5 wicket haul while Jones has two, Warne and McGrath both have one and so on is telling.

[tooextracool]

Why not? It wins matches.

The point is that taking 3/60 from 15 overs or whatever is a good effort but it's not going to turn a game on its head.

and a 5/25 in one game followed by 3-4 poor games is in no way better than a 3/60 in 6 out of 8 innings or so. because if you look at it carefully, one bowler has been a liability for 3 games despite winning one game while the other has played an important hand towards winning 3 out of 4 games.

[FaaipDeOiad]

and a 5/25 in one game followed by 3-4 poor games is in no way better than a 3/60 in 6 out of 8 innings or so. because if you look at it carefully, one bowler has been a liability for 3 games despite winning one game while the other has played an important hand towards winning 3 out of 4 games.

I'm not actually comparing him to Harmison... Harmison I think is way too inconsistent right now to be considered among the best bowlers in the world. When you compare him to guys who have actually ripped through sides in the past, it does become a questionmark.

Either way, he's a superb bowler, but I think it would certainly be an improvement if he started taking larger hauls of wickets and finishing teams off from time to time.

[tooextracool]

I'm not actually comparing him to Harmison... Harmison I think is way too inconsistent right now to be considered among the best bowlers in the world. When you compare him to guys who have actually ripped through sides in the past, it does become a questionmark.

Either way, he's a superb bowler, but I think it would certainly be an improvement if he started taking larger hauls of wickets and finishing teams off from time to time.

im not comparing him to harmison either. and yes he would be a better bowler than what he is now if he took more 5 wicket hauls, but to say that he isnt as good as someone who can rip through sides occasionally is wrong.

[Slats4ever]

flintoff is a top player. easily the best "orthodox" all rounder to have played in my time of watching and following cricket (15 years).

I've heard people say that to be a proper all rounder one part of your game alone should be good enough to get you into the team, but for Flintoff I think it's both. To me the guy's a supreme "natural" athlete who has taken his God given abilities and turned himself into the world's best player.