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why wasim and waqar were accused of ball tempering?

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Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Shoaib said:
Just like Mcgrath is the pioneer of chucking but he is not acuused of that because he is an "Australian" but Poor Malik and legendary Muttiah Muralitharan with legal actions are ,because they are Asians and also just to make them confuse so that they cannot bowl devastating bowling spells.
Thank-you for you invaluable insight.
 

Shoaib

Banned
Blaze said:
They were both dirty cheats. Great bowlers but they both definetly ball tampered and I think everyone deep down know's that.
Keep your *** shut until u dont have any solid evidence to defend your words.
 

Blaze

Banned
C_C said:
Like i said, EVERY bowler are dirty cheats then. Whats this whole thing about when some asian bloke does it, its dirty cheating chucking twerps but the identical stuff done by the rest aint condemned ?

That's exactly right. They are asians and therefore I immediately have a stereotype in my mind that they must be cheats. I don't no why we let asians play the game. They are all cheats 8-)

Honestly how one dimensional do you think people are.

The thread is about Waqar and Wasim, I commented that IMO they have ball tampered and are cheats. Did I say anything else about white bowlers? Why does it have to be about race? I couldn't give a toss if they were Pakistani, Brazilian or from Antarctica, that doesn't come into it.
 

C_C

International Captain
The thread is about Waqar and Wasim, I commented that IMO they have ball tampered and are cheats. Did I say anything else about white bowlers? Why does it have to be about race? I couldn't give a toss if they were Pakistani, Brazilian or from Antarctica, that doesn't come into it.
My point is, why is it 'suspect the asian bloke first' crap ?
And particularly when stated a fact or two that completely overturns the consistency of the argument, several people STILL stick to their original theories ( refer to Murali and the whole chucking issue). That comment was not directed towards you in particular but a general comment towards the attitude on this board.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
C_C said:
My point is, why is it 'suspect the asian bloke first' crap ?
And particularly when stated a fact or two that completely overturns the consistency of the argument, several people STILL stick to their original theories ( refer to Murali and the whole chucking issue). That comment was not directed towards you in particular but a general comment towards the attitude on this board.
I'll tell you why - because in 1992, a photograph was published in more than one tabloid in England which quite clearly showed what COULD be interpreted as ball-tampering by ... now let me see who was it? I forget now... ah, yes.

If no-one's ever seen (or rather, recognised) reverse-swing much before and suddenly a side is getting poleaxed, AND what appears to be incontrovertible evidence of skullduggery is presented at the same time, it is quite reasonable to put two and two together.

So there you are. Not because they were Asian at all - purely because they were the first. If it had been an Aussie (please God, why wasn't it an Aussie?) they would have been labelled ball-tamperers - and, for sure, if it had been an Englishman who made the front pages, he would have been equally castigated.

Incidentally, this is the best article I've read on reverse-swing in quite some time
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Shoaib said:
Just like Mcgrath is the pioneer of chucking but he is not acuused of that because he is an "Australian" but Poor Malik and legendary Muttiah Muralitharan with legal actions are ,because they are Asians and also just to make them confuse so that they cannot bowl devastating bowling spells.
You are resorting to the most blatantly stupid of unsubstantiated accusations, but don't worry about it. Most reasonable people ignore your rubbish anyway because they know a fool when they see one.
 

C_C

International Captain
If no-one's ever seen (or rather, recognised) reverse-swing much before and suddenly a side is getting poleaxed, AND what appears to be incontrovertible evidence of skullduggery is presented at the same time, it is quite reasonable to put two and two together.
Eh ?
Reverse swing has been around ever since Sarfaraz Nawaz started experimenting with it in the late 70s....he routed Australia for something riduculous like the last 9 wickets falling for 20 runs or something in the early 80s...Not to mention, Imran Khan showed what reverse swing really is to the world in THAT series vs India ( where he took 40+ wickets) and outfoxed everybody practically( only Jimmy Amarnath and Gavaskar could cope with Imran's lethal reverse swingers). Imran also demonstrated top flight reverse swing in England in 1982...so i dont agree with the 'sudden' aspect of that fateful 92 series.

Imran got sued for ball tampering by Botham and he promptly displayed video evidence of Botham doing it as well... i dont see anyone railing Botham over it... Even the 'prince' of fast bowling, Michael Holding said every bowler he'd ever ran across tampered with the ball at some point or another.... so i dont see why the whole myth of 'the two Ws started tampering with the ball and were cheats' persists..... I just dont get the notion of castigating a blind man in a nation of blind men!
 

EnglishRose

School Boy/Girl Captain
Swervy said:
Abdul Qadir said ball doctoring was happening in the Pakistan team when he was playing....and so on
You're such a ********, Skippy. So if one player comes out and says something its automatically gospel truth 8-)
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
C_C said:
Eh ?
Reverse swing has been around ever since Sarfaraz Nawaz started experimenting with it in the late 70s....he routed Australia for something riduculous like the last 9 wickets falling for 20 runs or something in the early 80s...Not to mention, Imran Khan showed what reverse swing really is to the world in THAT series vs India ( where he took 40+ wickets) and outfoxed everybody practically( only Jimmy Amarnath and Gavaskar could cope with Imran's lethal reverse swingers). Imran also demonstrated top flight reverse swing in England in 1982...so i dont agree with the 'sudden' aspect of that fateful 92 series.

Imran got sued for ball tampering by Botham and he promptly displayed video evidence of Botham doing it as well... i dont see anyone railing Botham over it... Even the 'prince' of fast bowling, Michael Holding said every bowler he'd ever ran across tampered with the ball at some point or another.... so i dont see why the whole myth of 'the two Ws started tampering with the ball and were cheats' persists..... I just dont get the notion of castigating a blind man in a nation of blind men!
If you read that article I posted, it's (reverse swing) been around even longer than that.

I was arguing about the PUBLIC PERCEPTION - face it, Joe Public wouldn't even be aware of the existence of Sarfraz, but put a picture on the front page of the Daily Mirror and suddenly the non-cricket supporting public's attention is drawn towards it.

So Eh? yourself.
 

C_C

International Captain
So Eh? yourself.
Well the Joe Public, particularly in England, were quiete familia with Imran Khan's exploits....but like i said, calling Wasim and Waqar tamperers is like castigating a blind man for being blilnd in a nation of blinds....and Eh is our Canadian nation word, so dont you be knocking that.
:p :p
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
C_C said:
Well the Joe Public, particularly in England, were quiete familia with Imran Khan's exploits....but like i said, calling Wasim and Waqar tamperers is like castigating a blind man for being blilnd in a nation of blinds....and Eh is our Canadian nation word, so dont you be knocking that.
:p :p
I thought it was "Aboot" :D
 

Swervy

International Captain
EnglishRose said:
You're such a ********, Skippy. So if one player comes out and says something its automatically gospel truth 8-)
no...but when combined with several other things it tends to suggest there is something in it.

oh and less of the insults boy
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
C_C said:
Well the Joe Public, particularly in England, were quiete familia with Imran Khan's exploits....but like i said, calling Wasim and Waqar tamperers is like castigating a blind man for being blilnd in a nation of blinds....and Eh is our Canadian nation word, so dont you be knocking that.
:p :p
I moved here from Canada, and they think I'm slow, eh?
 

King_Ponting

International Regular
im sick of all this racism rubbish...... It doesnt exist and the sooner members come to realise that the better. In effect by making the accusation that it is occuring they are actually being rascist themsleves...
 

C_C

International Captain
. It doesnt exist and the sooner members come to realise that the better.
I am sick of juvenile kids thinking that the world is as they perceive and that racism doesnt exist, especially when almost every single reputed human rights watch will tell you in unision that racism exists in every single multi racial community to some degree or another.

If racism doesnt exist and its all just a figment of immagination, start by explaining the median differences in pay structure and healthcare benifits along racial lines in almost every single multiracial country.
Let us know when you come out of yer bubble and deal with the REAL world.
Given that your society ( as with almost all societies) have classism and marginalisation in its history ( in your society's case, it would be racism), the onus is not on 'prove it exits' but rather, prove it doesnt exist !

In effect by making the accusation that it is occuring they are actually being rascist themsleves...
what utter hogwash that befits a member of the Aryan nation rather than a so-called 'non racist' person. Pointing out that racism exists and catalouging it is NOT the same as engaging in racism.
According to the quoted logic, if i point out that yer scum for being a slaver, then i am being a slaver !
 

King_Ponting

International Regular
C_C said:
what utter hogwash that befits a member of the Aryan nation rather than a so-called 'non racist' person. Pointing out that racism exists and catalouging it is NOT the same as engaging in racism.
Its like this mate. If someone gets pulled over for a speeding fine etc and they happen to be of a different ethnic background than the country in which they reside, and they use the fact that they are a particular race, in order to suggest that a certian predujice has occured, is classed as reverse racism. Particularily in cricket everyone is seen as being equal and there are rules that govern the game for all to follow. This reverse racism crap of " he's from such and such" lets target him, simply does not exist in cricket.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Time for this thread to die, because (once again) it has descended into the usual racist/non-racist claptrap they all do.

I'm tired of it, you're tired of it, we're all tired of it. Now sod off and harrass Combat18 or someone.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
luckyeddie said:
Time for this thread to die, because (once again) it has descended into the usual racist/non-racist claptrap they all do.

I'm tired of it, you're tired of it, we're all tired of it. Now sod off and harrass Combat18 or someone.
Seconded - to an extent. Back on topic please, we've been through the bias arguments more times than luckyeddie's used the term "zimmer frames" in the Ashes thread.

Keep it clean, peoples.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Blaze said:
They were both dirty cheats. Great bowlers but they both definetly ball tampered and I think everyone deep down know's that.
Speak for yourself. They were the greatest bowling pair I watched and I dont think they were cheats. Deep down somewhere you also know that they were not cheats but master of this art but continue to live in denial. You are not willing to accept that Pakistanis were able to master an art 20 years before everyone else could and thus there has to be something wrong.

Alan Donald in his autobiography on why Wasim/Waqar were so successful :-

".....The '95 season saw me use reverse swing for the first time with any consistency. I'd marveled at the way Wasim and Waqar had outclassed batsmen for so long with reverse swing and I wanted to add that to my bowling. Wasim's got such a fast arm that the ball is on you before you can react. He's the greatest reverse swing bowler I've ever seen........Bowlers like Waqar have the perfect actions for reverse swing — slingy action, with the arm not brushing the right hip in the traditional manner, but delivered more front-on to the batsman....."
 

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