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Thread: why wasim and waqar were accused of ball tempering?

  1. #31
    C_C
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    so despite TV evidence...that is no proof?
    So when TV evidence shows Waqar as scartching the ball, Wasim is miraculously, guilty and some even extend that all the way to Imran.
    By the same logic, when the Atherton had his 'dirt in the pocket' incident, Gough,Caddick,et. al are guilty as well and it extends all the way back to Grace.

  2. #32
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    And you mean to say that there is indisputable proof that Flintoff/Jones etc. dont tamper with the ball ?
    Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof.

    Just like being subcontinental maybe enough for you, but for most people, they actually want some proof, i guess !

  4. #34
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.
    Utter codswallop.


  5. #35
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Just like being subcontinental maybe enough for you, but for most people, they actually want some proof, i guess !
    So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Utter codswallop.
    Whats utter codswallop is yer insecurity complex and rarely, if ever, justifying a comment with reason.

    If what Aaqib did could convict Wasim or Waqar, i see no reason why what Atherton did couldnt convict Gough or Caddick etc.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.

    I will produce proof just as soon as you produce proof for your this idiotic comment :

    "Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof."

  8. #38
    Cricketer Of The Year Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush
    There is no proof whether the Pakistanis tampered or not. There are too sides of the arguement and I do not see how one can be proven convincingly over the other.
    i have seen video clippings of waqar clearly scratching the ball....i am told there is footage of aquib javed doing it as well...dunno about akram though...
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  9. #39
    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    ....Utter codswallop....

    What the effing ****? did you even read the circumstances c_c posted this in? c_c is not ragging on english seemers out of no ****ing reasons. english media were the first to lay the blame on the pakistani bowlers. He is just saying that if one is guilty of something by association than caddick and co are as guilty as atherton and waqar/wasim/imran as guity as aaqib javed. He used the english example because it frankly is the most popular one around.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    well that is undisputable proof that they never tampered with the ball isnt it!!!!???
    They ?/ Who is they ? Waqar is one person. Have you seen Wasim tamper with the ball ?

    Anyways here is an eye opener :-

    "At the high court in London last month, Khan's lawyers showed the jury TV footage in which Botham was seen scratching the ball with his fingernails. Another clip showed him throwing the ball to wicket-keeper Bob Taylor, who rubbed the ball with the back of his thick rubber gloves.Then on July 25, the ninth day of the trial, Khan stunned the court by withdrawing his charges against Botham and offering him an apology. The about-face apparently came after Khan realized that the video clips were not enough to substantiate his charges. "

    http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/96/0809/nat5.html

    So that means there are clippings available, now go and get it from the courtroom and watch it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg
    ....Utter codswallop....

    What the effing ****? did you even read the circumstances c_c posted this in? c_c is not ragging on english seemers out of no ****ing reasons. english media were the first to lay the blame on the pakistani bowlers. He is just saying that if one is guilty of something by association than caddick and co are as guilty as atherton and waqar/wasim/imran as guity as aaqib javed. He used the english example because it frankly is the most popular one around.
    you talking to me?

    frankly i wasn't taking any sides, just pointing out what i saw(and waqar was clearly using his nails on the ball, there was no doubt about that....)....and i read this thread and c_c does have a point on the guilt by association working both ways or not at all....

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Utter codswallop.
    Is that the best you could come up with ?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    So when TV evidence shows Waqar as scartching the ball, Wasim is miraculously, guilty and some even extend that all the way to Imran.
    By the same logic, when the Atherton had his 'dirt in the pocket' incident, Gough,Caddick,et. al are guilty as well and it extends all the way back to Grace.
    Flintoff played with Akram at Lancashire. So If Akram can be accused of Ball tampering just because he played with Waqar. Using the same logic Flintoff can be declared guilty of Ball Tampering as well.

    Anyways does the name Steve Kirby ring a bell to anyone here ??

  14. #44
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.
    And you have all the proof against Wasim/Waqar, dont you ?

  15. #45
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    I think ball-tampering would be far more common in world-cricket than anyone would like to admit. I remember seeing Kapil Dev picking the seam up against Australia in 1991 and it was so obvious, Ritchie even gave him the "Ohhh, Kapil.......". I've watched Brett Lee do it, I've watched Hansie Cronje do it, I've watched Waqar do it, I've watched Chris Cairns do it etc., etc. on and on it goes.

    I've long held the opinion on this forum that ball-tampering is made far too big a deal of and the fact it's made a big deal of lends further proof to the opinion that it's a batsman's game. If England are doing it this series, it's just evened the playing field. They've shown some of the Aussie batsmen (and fans) that their averages flatter them.

    Short of using bottle-tops or anything 'artificial', a bowler should be able to do with the ball what he wants. If he can make the ball bend around when bits of seam are falling off it by using fingernails/spit, etc. that's skill, not cheating. It's a calculated risk too because if a bowler is affecting the ball and buggers it up, then it's his fault when the ball stops moving. Plus, having a ball which moves everywhere is useless if you can't bowl it in the right areas so there's still plenty of skill required.

    In a lot of Tests, after 20 overs, the ball using traditional means is essentially useless. That means that the batsmen get 60 overs of movement-free batting against fast bowlers (vast generalisation, I know). You want to talk unfair advantages? There's one. There have been many innovations which have helped batsmen over the last 30 years (better willow, designs which make bats lighter but still have plenty of wood, shorter boundaries, etc.).

    Name one for fast bowlers.

    If anything, fast bowlers have had nothing restrictions placed on them (bouncer rules in Test and ODI cricket, making Mankadding virtually impossible, tightening of LBW rules). You'd have no trouble convincing me that fast bowlers do get an advantage from being able to do more with the ball but in all my years of watching cricket, no-one and I mean no-one has ever been able to show even a little why those advantages are 'unfair'. There's a big distinction between an 'unfair advantage' and an 'advantage'.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 23-08-2005 at 10:49 PM.
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