why wasim and waqar were accused of ball tempering?

[Swervy]

And you mean to say that there is indisputable proof that Flintoff/Jones etc. dont tamper with the ball ?

well have you seen them do it?

 

[C_C]

Pretty hard to prove a negative like that. Innocent until proven guilty, m'lud?!

Indeed. Would request the swervmeister to extend this to Akram and Younis as well.

 

[C_C]

well have you seen them do it?

Have you seen Akram and Younis do it ?

Look- one thing i will make clear. I cant vouch for Waqar but i have personally talked to Akram and he gave me a few tips when i was a upitty teen pacer...met him multiple times actually.....he could move the ball around in more different ways and more deviation than the any pacer in the 300 wicket club barring Imran Khan. Him needing a bottle top is akin to Ayerton Senna needing driving aid.

 

[Swervy]

Indeed. Would request the swervmeister to extend this to Akram and Younis as well.

Well W&W 's bowling partner,the decidedly average Aqib was seen on TV in 92 messing with the ball. Waqar has also been filmed on the field of play scratching at the ball with his finger nails..former team mate Abdul Qadir said ball doctoring was happening in the Pakistan team when he was playing....and so on

 

[Swervy]

Have you seen Akram and Younis do it ?

Look- one thing i will make clear. I cant vouch for Waqar but i have personally talked to Akram and he gave me a few tips when i was a upitty teen pacer...met him multiple times actually.....he could move the ball around in more different ways and more deviation than the any pacer in the 300 wicket club barring Imran Khan. Him needing a bottle top is akin to Ayerton Senna needing driving aid.

well Akram was hardly going to tell some teenager to start messing with the ball was he!!!

 

[vic_orthdox]

well Akram was hardly going to tell some teenager to start messing with the ball was he!!!

Greg Matthew does...

But he's Mo Matthews, I guess...

 

[C_C]

Well W&W 's bowling partner,the decidedly average Aqib was seen on TV in 92 messing with the ball. Waqar has also been filmed on the field of play scratching at the ball with his finger nails..former team mate Abdul Qadir said ball doctoring was happening in the Pakistan team when he was playing....and so on

Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.

And you'd be surprised to find out just how many players scratch the ball or pick the seams in the name of 'taking the dirt out' - flintoff, harmison, jones etc. are no different.

well Akram was hardly going to tell some teenager to start messing with the ball was he!!!

The point is, he could do unbelievable things with a brand new ball without an iota of grooming it. Its just a case of sour grapes from english commentators who couldnt believe the things he was capable of doing.

 

[Swervy]

Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.

And you'd be surprised to find out just how many players scratch the ball or pick the seams in the name of 'taking the dirt out' - flintoff, harmison, jones etc. are no different.




.

It wasnt just picking dirt, it was scatching at the ball.

so have you seen the English bowlers pick at the seam then CC?

 

[C_C]

so have you seen the English bowlers pick at the seam then CC?

Ofcourse !
Havnt you ?
I've seen every team pick the seams, even frickin Kenya.
Just attend a few matches and pay attention to what the bowler does on his 'walkback' to his bowling marker.


And like i said, you'd be surprised to know what goes on in the name of picking the dirt.


At the end of the day, you have no proof or evidence against Wasim or Waqar and thus, by yer own logic, i dont need to have proof or evidence to accuse Jones or Flintoff for ball tampering.

 

[Swervy]

Ofcourse !
Havnt you ?
I've seen every team pick the seams, even frickin Kenya.
Just attend a few matches and pay attention to what the bowler does on his 'walkback' to his bowling marker.


And like i said, you'd be surprised to know what goes on in the name of picking the dirt.


At the end of the day, you have no proof or evidence against Wasim or Waqar and thus, by yer own logic, i dont need to have proof or evidence to accuse Jones or Flintoff for ball tampering.

so despite TV evidence...that is no proof?

and no I havent seen the English bowlers picking the seam

 

[C_C]

so despite TV evidence...that is no proof?

So when TV evidence shows Waqar as scartching the ball, Wasim is miraculously, guilty and some even extend that all the way to Imran.
By the same logic, when the Atherton had his 'dirt in the pocket' incident, Gough,Caddick,et. al are guilty as well and it extends all the way back to Grace.

 

[marc71178]

And you mean to say that there is indisputable proof that Flintoff/Jones etc. dont tamper with the ball ?

Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof.

 

[C_C]

Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof.

Just like being subcontinental maybe enough for you, but for most people, they actually want some proof, i guess !

 

[marc71178]

Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.

Utter codswallop.

 

[marc71178]

Just like being subcontinental maybe enough for you, but for most people, they actually want some proof, i guess !

So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.

 

[C_C]

Utter codswallop.

Whats utter codswallop is yer insecurity complex and rarely, if ever, justifying a comment with reason.

If what Aaqib did could convict Wasim or Waqar, i see no reason why what Atherton did couldnt convict Gough or Caddick etc.

 

[C_C]

So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.

I will produce proof just as soon as you produce proof for your this idiotic comment :

"Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof."

 

[Anil]

There is no proof whether the Pakistanis tampered or not. There are too sides of the arguement and I do not see how one can be proven convincingly over the other.

i have seen video clippings of waqar clearly scratching the ball....i am told there is footage of aquib javed doing it as well...dunno about akram though...

 

[Beleg]

....Utter codswallop....

What the effing ****? did you even read the circumstances c_c posted this in? c_c is not ragging on english seemers out of no ****ing reasons. english media were the first to lay the blame on the pakistani bowlers. He is just saying that if one is guilty of something by association than caddick and co are as guilty as atherton and waqar/wasim/imran as guity as aaqib javed. He used the english example because it frankly is the most popular one around.

 

[Sanz]

well that is undisputable proof that they never tampered with the ball isnt it!!!!???

They ?/ Who is they ? Waqar is one person. Have you seen Wasim tamper with the ball ?

Anyways here is an eye opener :-

"At the high court in London last month, Khan's lawyers showed the jury TV footage in which Botham was seen scratching the ball with his fingernails. Another clip showed him throwing the ball to wicket-keeper Bob Taylor, who rubbed the ball with the back of his thick rubber gloves.Then on July 25, the ninth day of the trial, Khan stunned the court by withdrawing his charges against Botham and offering him an apology. The about-face apparently came after Khan realized that the video clips were not enough to substantiate his charges. "

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/96/0809/nat5.html

So that means there are clippings available, now go and get it from the courtroom and watch it.