Swervy
International Captain
well have you seen them do it?C_C said:And you mean to say that there is indisputable proof that Flintoff/Jones etc. dont tamper with the ball ?
well have you seen them do it?C_C said:And you mean to say that there is indisputable proof that Flintoff/Jones etc. dont tamper with the ball ?
Pretty hard to prove a negative like that. Innocent until proven guilty, m'lud?!
Have you seen Akram and Younis do it ?Swervy said:well have you seen them do it?
Well W&W 's bowling partner,the decidedly average Aqib was seen on TV in 92 messing with the ball. Waqar has also been filmed on the field of play scratching at the ball with his finger nails..former team mate Abdul Qadir said ball doctoring was happening in the Pakistan team when he was playing....and so onC_C said:Indeed. Would request the swervmeister to extend this to Akram and Younis as well.
well Akram was hardly going to tell some teenager to start messing with the ball was he!!!C_C said:Have you seen Akram and Younis do it ?
Look- one thing i will make clear. I cant vouch for Waqar but i have personally talked to Akram and he gave me a few tips when i was a upitty teen pacer...met him multiple times actually.....he could move the ball around in more different ways and more deviation than the any pacer in the 300 wicket club barring Imran Khan. Him needing a bottle top is akin to Ayerton Senna needing driving aid.
Greg Matthew does...Swervy said:well Akram was hardly going to tell some teenager to start messing with the ball was he!!!
Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.Well W&W 's bowling partner,the decidedly average Aqib was seen on TV in 92 messing with the ball. Waqar has also been filmed on the field of play scratching at the ball with his finger nails..former team mate Abdul Qadir said ball doctoring was happening in the Pakistan team when he was playing....and so on
The point is, he could do unbelievable things with a brand new ball without an iota of grooming it. Its just a case of sour grapes from english commentators who couldnt believe the things he was capable of doing.well Akram was hardly going to tell some teenager to start messing with the ball was he!!!
It wasnt just picking dirt, it was scatching at the ball.C_C said:Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.
And you'd be surprised to find out just how many players scratch the ball or pick the seams in the name of 'taking the dirt out' - flintoff, harmison, jones etc. are no different.
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Ofcourse !so have you seen the English bowlers pick at the seam then CC?
so despite TV evidence...that is no proof?C_C said:Ofcourse !
Havnt you ?
I've seen every team pick the seams, even frickin Kenya.
Just attend a few matches and pay attention to what the bowler does on his 'walkback' to his bowling marker.
And like i said, you'd be surprised to know what goes on in the name of picking the dirt.
At the end of the day, you have no proof or evidence against Wasim or Waqar and thus, by yer own logic, i dont need to have proof or evidence to accuse Jones or Flintoff for ball tampering.
So when TV evidence shows Waqar as scartching the ball, Wasim is miraculously, guilty and some even extend that all the way to Imran.so despite TV evidence...that is no proof?
Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof.C_C said:And you mean to say that there is indisputable proof that Flintoff/Jones etc. dont tamper with the ball ?
marc71178 said:Sorry, but being English maybe enough for you, but for most people they actually want proof.
Utter codswallop.C_C said:Well by that logic, Gough, Caddick et al. are ball tamperers because of Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident.
So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.C_C said:Just like being subcontinental maybe enough for you, but for most people, they actually want some proof, i guess !
Whats utter codswallop is yer insecurity complex and rarely, if ever, justifying a comment with reason.marc71178 said:Utter codswallop.
marc71178 said:So no doubt you'll have proof to back that sort of statement up.
i have seen video clippings of waqar clearly scratching the ball....i am told there is footage of aquib javed doing it as well...dunno about akram though...Pratyush said:There is no proof whether the Pakistanis tampered or not. There are too sides of the arguement and I do not see how one can be proven convincingly over the other.
They ?/ Who is they ? Waqar is one person. Have you seen Wasim tamper with the ball ?Swervy said:well that is undisputable proof that they never tampered with the ball isnt it!!!!???