why wasim and waqar were accused of ball tempering?

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Swervy

So now you are changing from saying we have no proof that they did it, to almost acceptance that they did and so did everyone else.

Dont tell me that is the only proof you have got to castigate an entire generation of Pakistani bowlers. Sarfaraz Nawaz Really has no credibility and I dont believe a single word that comes outta his <you know where> . It is a fact that Ball Tampering was and is there in county cricket.

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Swervy

Despite no actual evidence that Wasim did it, he surely received the benefit of others doing it (Aqib)

And that makes him a ball tamperer cheat. doesn't it ??

[Sanz]

In his coulumn David Gower writes about the Reverse Swing and how well it was exploited by the Pakistanis :-

"I remember playing against Pakistan in the 1980s and early 1990s, ignorant, I have to admit, of this phenomenon and bemused how an older ball would continue to swing.

Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis were arch-exponents, but even the medium-pacers such as Mudassar Nazar enjoyed using the older ball. “Mud” did me for a pastime, it seemed, but he did get a few others too and was the destroyer at Lord’s in 1982 when he picked up a bagful of wickets quickly on the last day and set up a victory...."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...754584,00.html

[Sanz]

First it was Waqar and now it is the Sultan of Swing on how english press reported on Reverse Swing then and now, he also claims to have taught freddie the art of reverse swing (aka ball tampering in the british tabloid):-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasim Akram says England should apologise for accusing his team of cheating in 1992 when they used reverse swing. Akram and Waqar Younis used it to devastating effect in that series, and England employed the same art to similar effect all summer against Australia; Simon Jones and Andrew Flintoff were particularly adept at using it.

"England owe us an apology in a big way," Akram told AFP. "When we did the reverse swing against England in 1992, they were [the] great moaners and groaners of the world, [and] they termed it as cheating. And now when they achieved an Ashes win through reverse swing, it's an art," Akram said.

Akram, Pakistan's best left-arm seamer, and his pace partner Waqar Younis shattered England with a devastating display of reverse-swing bowling during Pakistan's tour of England in 1992, helping Pakistan to a 2-1 win.

England's tabloid press accused the pair, who took 41 wickets between them, of cheating and ball tampering. But England used the same technique to dismantle the much-touted Australian batting, and dethrone Australia as Ashes champions after a hard-fought 2-1 series which ended Monday.

"Now English bowlers know it, it's the art of reverse swing. Still, I am happy that they have finally realised the importance of reverse swing," Akram said yesterday.

Akram, who has taken 414 Test and a world record of 502 one-day wickets in his career, said Pakistani bowlers should be given credit for the reverse swing.

"This art has spread only because of Pakistani bowlers," he said. "Imran Khan taught me how to reverse swing the ball, I told Younis and we mastered it."

He said English all-rounder Andrew Flintoff learnt a lot from him while they both played county cricket for Lancashire in the late 1990s.

"He learnt how to hide the shine and he did that during the Ashes. Had I not told him, he would have learnt it anyway, but I am glad that he has learnt well. They have mastered the art of reverse swing and [the] Australians had no clue as to how to cope with the reverse swing," Akram said.

Source - Cricinfo.

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by Sanz

First it was Waqar and now it is the Sultan of Swing on how english press reported on Reverse Swing then and now, he also claims to have taught freddie the art of reverse swing (aka ball tampering in the british tabloid):-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasim Akram says England should apologise for accusing his team of cheating in 1992 when they used reverse swing. Akram and Waqar Younis used it to devastating effect in that series, and England employed the same art to similar effect all summer against Australia; Simon Jones and Andrew Flintoff were particularly adept at using it.

"England owe us an apology in a big way," Akram told AFP. "When we did the reverse swing against England in 1992, they were [the] great moaners and groaners of the world, [and] they termed it as cheating. And now when they achieved an Ashes win through reverse swing, it's an art," Akram said.

Akram, Pakistan's best left-arm seamer, and his pace partner Waqar Younis shattered England with a devastating display of reverse-swing bowling during Pakistan's tour of England in 1992, helping Pakistan to a 2-1 win.

England's tabloid press accused the pair, who took 41 wickets between them, of cheating and ball tampering. But England used the same technique to dismantle the much-touted Australian batting, and dethrone Australia as Ashes champions after a hard-fought 2-1 series which ended Monday.

"Now English bowlers know it, it's the art of reverse swing. Still, I am happy that they have finally realised the importance of reverse swing," Akram said yesterday.

Akram, who has taken 414 Test and a world record of 502 one-day wickets in his career, said Pakistani bowlers should be given credit for the reverse swing.

"This art has spread only because of Pakistani bowlers," he said. "Imran Khan taught me how to reverse swing the ball, I told Younis and we mastered it."

He said English all-rounder Andrew Flintoff learnt a lot from him while they both played county cricket for Lancashire in the late 1990s.

"He learnt how to hide the shine and he did that during the Ashes. Had I not told him, he would have learnt it anyway, but I am glad that he has learnt well. They have mastered the art of reverse swing and [the] Australians had no clue as to how to cope with the reverse swing," Akram said.

Source - Cricinfo.

oh diddums..is the spotlight not on wasim...poor boy oh dear (only kidding )

Just wondering though...does anyone really need to be taught how to hide the ball in the run up?????

[Swervy]

actually, this still doesnt get rid of my gut feeling that the Pakistan players way back then did things to the ball that were not legal and aided the reverse swinging of the ball.

There is a huge difference in how the ball swung in the early 90's compared to how the English players did it this summer...but I think we can drop this one for a bit...it gets a bit too heated when we talk about this

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Swervy

actually, this still doesnt get rid of my gut feeling that the Pakistan players way back then did things to the ball that were not legal and aided the reverse swinging of the ball.

There is a huge difference in how the ball swung in the early 90's compared to how the English players did it this summer...but I think we can drop this one for a bit...it gets a bit too heated when we talk about this

To play devil's advocate a bit, I couldn't help but notice Fred reversed it an awful lot less at The Oval without Jonah working on the ball....

Maybe Waqar passed his bottle top on to Si @ Glamorgan.....

(NB: joking!)

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

To play devil's advocate a bit, I couldn't help but notice Fred reversed it an awful lot less at The Oval without Jonah working on the ball....

Maybe Waqar passed his bottle top on to Si @ Glamorgan.....

(NB: joking!)

conditions much more suited to conventional swing

[Jace11]

I remember seeing close ups of Wasim or Waqar picking at the seam and I remember seeing Atherton put dirt on the ball out of his pocket. If you are seen doing it, then you get a reputation, I don't see the problem...

Hanse Cronje did far far worse..

I think the differences in swing during the matches was down to pitch abrasiveness. Old Trafford was really rough and hard..

I thought Tres was the main ball prep man in the england squad?

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by Jace11

I remember seeing close ups of Wasim or Waqar picking at the seam and I remember seeing Atherton put dirt on the ball out of his pocket. If you are seen doing it, then you get a reputation, I don't see the problem...

Hanse Cronje did far far worse..

I agree


The problem is that ball tampering is not allowed according to the laws of the game...maybe the laws should be changed//maybe they shouldnt

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Jace11

I remember seeing close ups of Wasim or Waqar picking at the seam and I remember seeing Atherton put dirt on the ball out of his pocket. If you are seen doing it, then you get a reputation, I don't see the problem...

You've seen Wasim picking at the seam ?

[C_C]

There is a huge difference in how the ball swung in the early 90's compared to how the English players did it this summer

Yeah.
In the 90s the ball didnt swing till the 40th over or so, now England are swinging it around the 20th over mark.
Hmmmmm.
Get over it- you guys had no blinking clue about reverse swing and got totally blasted by it and human beings have a tendency to vilify something they dont understand when that something bites them in the ****.

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by C_C

Yeah.
In the 90s the ball didnt swing till the 40th over or so, now England are swinging it around the 20th over mark.
Hmmmmm.
Get over it- you guys had no blinking clue about reverse swing and got totally blasted by it and human beings have a tendency to vilify something they dont understand when that something bites them in the ****.

you guys?

[C_C]

Originally Posted by Swervy

you guys?

You guys = English cricketers/fans or most of the non pakistani cricketers/fans for that matter.

[Dasa]

I agree somewhat with C_C here...Pakistani cricketers are automatically assumed to be 'cheating' when they get prodigious swing, but when England do it no-one even thinks of that.