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View Poll Results: The Greatest of Wisdens cricketers of the century

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  • Shane Warne

    6 10.71%
  • Jack Hobbs

    0 0%
  • Vivian Richards

    5 8.93%
  • Garfield Sobers

    14 25.00%
  • Donald Bradman

    31 55.36%
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Thread: Vote for the greatest of Wisden's five cricketers of the century

  1. #16
    C_C
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    Oh and another thing - Jack Hobbs wasnt in the list, Tendulkar was.

  2. #17
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Oh and another thing - Jack Hobbs wasnt in the list, Tendulkar was.
    Actually, Hobbs was in there and there was no Tendulkar.
    http://www.channel4.com/sport/cricke...s/ana_125.html

  3. #18
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Oh and another thing - Jack Hobbs wasnt in the list, Tendulkar was.
    Eh?
    It's cold on the outside they say
    But the cold leaves you clear while the heat leaves a haze

  4. #19
    C_C
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    NVM, i was thinking of something else probably....


  5. #20
    International Vice-Captain Slats4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Bradman was the greatest batsman. Not the greatest cricketer. Sobers had the level of mastery in ALL disciplines of cricket that no one has matched ever since.

    Saying that Bradman is the greatest cricketer, since he is the greatest batsman, is like saying Ivanisevic is the greatest tennis player, since he is probably the greatest server tennis has ever seen.
    heh? it has nothing to do with a comparison to Ivanisevic as the worlds best server.

    It's all subjective. Who would you rather have in your cricket team? Sobers or Bradman. That is how you shuld base the best cricketer. It seems as if you are just clutching at something that just doesn't make any logical sense, to try for some reason to dethrone bradman as the King of cricket.

    If he avged 75 or something like that then maybe Sobers would get a run, but to avg 99.94 when these days a batsman's considered amazing if he avgs above 55 suggests that Bradman was something else.
    WCC - Manager of Warwickshire

  6. #21
    C_C
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    Who would you rather have in your cricket team? Sobers or Bradman. That is how you shuld base the best cricketer. It seems as if you are just clutching at something that just doesn't make any logical sense, to try for some reason to dethrone bradman as the King of cricket.
    And i said i would rather have Sobers in the team than bradman ( ideally i would have them BOTH).
    Why ? Because Sobers was a hall of famer batsman, hall of famer fielder and an excellent bowler.
    Bradman was the greatest human being to pick up a bat but utter mastery in one outta the three disciplines doesnt cut it for me, when compared to top 1% in terms of batting and fielding and maybe top 10% in terms of bowling.

    Bradman's contributions ends with the bat....Sobers on the other hand, contributes stellarly in every discipline of cricket.... you get Bradman for Zero and he is neutralised. You get Sobers for Zero and he might still get a 5-fer with the ball, save 20-30 runs in the field with his athleticism and hold on to a few stunners to swing the match your way.
    Simple as that.
    Bradman may be the king to the Aussie-English posse but to the rest of the cricket world, Sobers is the popular choice ( and justifiably so) when it comes to the ultimate cricketer and the king of cricket. Infact, i would pick Sobers and Imran Khan before ANY other player for my XI, be it bradman or Murali.

    Besides, Bradman scored his runs in the amatuer era and against bowling which were several notches below the bowling of the 60s,70s,80s,90s and early 2000s....I am not convinced at all that he would average anything more than 70-75 in the modern era of professionalism.
    The game was easy-paced then and not as physically demanding....simply because most players didnt exert that much, didnt take the game as seriously and that is evidenced by oh-so-many 40+ players playing the game back then...in the professional era a player is lucky if he makes it past 37-38.
    Kinda gives you an idea of the 'competitiveness' of the field when 9 outta 10 players back then who were 'good enough to play test cricket' continued playing test/FC cricket till their mid 40s despite the fact that they were less physically fit and capable and had inferior nutritional standards.

  7. #22
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Besides, Bradman scored his runs in the amatuer era and against bowling which were several notches below the bowling of the 60s,70s,80s,90s and early 2000s....I am not convinced at all that he would average anything more than 70-75 in the modern era of professionalism.
    Don't go there. Bradman was a legend and would average the same, probably more, in this era. Look at the size of the bloody bats we use, he'd be spanking every ball to the boundary. I fail to see how the bowling of Bodyline was 'amatuer,' and 'several notches below' current bowling.


    Bradman for me without a shadow of a doubt
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  8. #23
    International Coach archie mac's Avatar
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    I think Sobers one of the all time greats, but just to make a couple of points.
    Sobers ave. with the ball is nothing to flash, would he have played all those Tests if he could not bat?

    Also Bradman was a fine out fielder especially early in his career.

    I would also give Bradman the nod as a captain.

    C_C you already know what I think of your old time players would not last in the modern era theory.
    You know it makes sense.

  9. #24
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc
    Don't go there. Bradman was a legend and would average the same, probably more, in this era. Look at the size of the bloody bats we use, he'd be spanking every ball to the boundary. I fail to see how the bowling of Bodyline was 'amatuer,' and 'several notches below' current bowling.


    Bradman for me without a shadow of a doubt

    Bulldust.
    Average more probably from 2002 onwards but facing Harold Larwood is chump change compared to facing Wasim Akram or Curtley Ambrose.
    Facing a decent tweaker like Verity is chump change compared to facing Kumble or Murali.

    And given how he performed against Larwood and Voce, i would be surprised if he could average 50 against the WI four prong.... its one thing facing Larwood and Voce, its anothe thing facing Marshall-Holding-Garner-Roberts.

    I suppose you also believe that Sampras would've been spanked by Bill Tillden and that Graf would've been spanked by Suzanne Lenglen if they all had the same equipments and i suppose you think Paavo Nurmi would stand a snowball's chance in hell against Haile Gebraselasse.
    I also suppose you think newton might teach me a thing or three about Calculus.
    Things progress...get over it. Almost every profession 50 years ahead of time is at a higher level and cricket is no exception.

  10. #25
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac
    I think Sobers one of the all time greats, but just to make a couple of points.
    Sobers ave. with the ball is nothing to flash, would he have played all those Tests if he could not bat?

    Also Bradman was a fine out fielder especially early in his career.

    I would also give Bradman the nod as a captain.

    C_C you already know what I think of your old time players would not last in the modern era theory.
    Err.... according to Hall, Sobers was the best fricking new-ball bowler EVER.
    Have you seen him bowl to Boycott ? I saw him bowl to Boycott, taking the ball ahead of Hall or Griffiths and Boycott missed every single ball for 3 overs straight. I think it speaks volumes about his fast-medium bowling callibre that he often was given the new ball over Wes Hall/Charlie Griffiths.

    Sobers's career average was ruined when he took to bowling spin near the end of the innings, trying to buy a wicket and tossing it up all the time, mostly because he was too tired to bowl pace.... if Sobers didnt have his batting responsibilities, i dont have a doubt that he would've matched quiete a few 'great bowlers' in terms of their average.

    And Bradman was a decent fielder ? Please..... he was a decent catcher... nobody from that era was a decent fielder and nobody before Colin Bland and Gary Sobers knew anything apart from running behind the ball and bending down to pick it up when it slowed/stopped.
    The few clips i've seen of bradman, he makes Ganguly look like Jonty Rhodes in the field.

    I know what you think of my theory but i have not heard anything apart from optimistic conjencture to try and prove it otehrwise.
    Last edited by C_C; 16-08-2005 at 02:24 AM.

  11. #26
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Sorry, but that claim that nobody in the era was a decent fielder is way off the mark. In fact, one of the things the Invincibles were renowned for was how amazingly good their fielding was. Bradman of course by that stage wasn't so flash, but guys like Morris, Hassett, Harvey and particularly Miller and Loxton were brilliant and athletic in the field, good catchers and excellent ground fieldsmen. And as far as catching in the era goes, well if you can find a better slip fielder than Wally Hammond anywhere you're doing a pretty good job. He stands comfortably alongside guys like Botham, Waugh, Sobers, Simpson etc as far as slip fielding goes.

  12. #27
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Sorry, but that claim that nobody in the era was a decent fielder is way off the mark. In fact, one of the things the Invincibles were renowned for was how amazingly good their fielding was. Bradman of course by that stage wasn't so flash, but guys like Morris, Hassett, Harvey and particularly Miller and Loxton were brilliant and athletic in the field, good catchers and excellent ground fieldsmen. And as far as catching in the era goes, well if you can find a better slip fielder than Wally Hammond anywhere you're doing a pretty good job. He stands comfortably alongside guys like Botham, Waugh, Sobers, Simpson etc as far as slip fielding goes.
    Umm...ground fielding in that era was attrocious...like i said, a Saurav Ganguly or Anil Kumble would be excellent, given the standard of fielding back then.
    Nobody even ran behind the ball...they just jogged all the way to the boundary....you'd notice that from watching the few tapes from that timeframe as well as noting how common it was for batsmen back then to jog four singles.....
    Sorry but the invincibles might've been 'excellent' fielders for their era, but for a professional era, were nothing more than club-cricket standard fielders.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Err.... according to Hall, Sobers was the best fricking new-ball bowler EVER.
    So because Hall says Sobers was the best new-ball bowler, he must have been, but when you have all those players from the 30's-50's saying how difficult the bowling was and how good Bradman was, they're all deluded?

  14. #29
    International Regular King_Ponting's Avatar
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    No question: Bradman light years ahead of the pack

  15. #30
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc
    So because Hall says Sobers was the best new-ball bowler, he must have been, but when you have all those players from the 30's-50's saying how difficult the bowling was and how good Bradman was, they're all deluded?
    Oh i dont think Sobers is the best newball bowler ever.....far from it..but it sure speaks volumes when he is the one taking a first bite at the cherry ahead of a bowler like Hall, who in the late 50s and 60s was possibly only behind Trueman as the best pace bowler.

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