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Thread: Andy Flower

  1. #1
    International Debutant cricket player's Avatar
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    Andy Flower

    Best wicket keeper batsman ever?
    Bob is very insane stay away from him

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  2. #2
    International Regular shaka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricket player
    Best wicket keeper batsman ever?
    The simple answer is no, but probably for Zimbabwe he was.

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    International Vice-Captain Slats4ever's Avatar
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    haha yeah you can't compare him with Gilchrist. well u can i suppose but nowhere near the same class
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    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slats4ever
    haha yeah you can't compare him with Gilchrist. well u can i suppose but nowhere near the same class

    I disagree. It would be a toss up for me as to who I would have in my side.


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    Care to tell me why Flower isnt comparable to Gillchrist ?
    I would go for Gillchrist too, but it is fairly marginal as per their batting is concerned( Gilly IMO is a better keeper).

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    International Vice-Captain Slats4ever's Avatar
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    read my post again CC i admitted that he was comparable to Gilchrist... just wanted to clear that up.

    Gilchrist is far more of a game breaker and a powerhouse batting machine. Often I believe Gilchrist throws his wicket away simply cos Australia is in such an amazing position in most games that if he were to really knuckle down he could an increase his avg heaps more.

    Players have rated him the scariest batsman to bowl to and I don't think Flower even appeared in the top 10.

    Gilchrist is amazing at performing when he needs to, when the chips are down for Australia you can count on him coming through.

    Gilchrists avges over 3 runs higher than Flower in tests, and strikes it at 38 more runs per hundred balls that Flower.

    Gilchrist avgs more in od's and strikes it at over 20 runs per hundred balls better than Flower.

    Gilchrist avges 4.2 dismissals per test compared to 2.53 per test from Flower.

    The stats and the way of getting his runs says something about the massive edge that Gilchrist has on Flower.

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Gilchrist plays amongst a supremely talented line-up.

    Flower was basically the only player Zimbabwe could rely on with the bat...
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    International Regular shaka's Avatar
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    Flower does bat higher up in the order than Gilchrist and therefore Flower has no base in which to approach his innings. Gilchrist on the other hand comes in at 7 with the score usually above the 250 mark at least.

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    International Regular shaka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Gilchrist plays amongst a supremely talented line-up.

    Flower was basically the only player Zimbabwe could rely on with the bat...
    Maybe the other Flower brother (Grant) or Heath Streak.

  10. #10
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slats4ever
    Gilchrist avges 4.2 dismissals per test compared to 2.53 per test from Flower.
    I don't think this stat says anything about their respective capabilities as 'keepers. Gilchrist is 'keeping to McGrath, Warne and co...Flower kept wickets to bowlers of a much lower standard (who didn't create many chances he could hold on to).
    Quote Originally Posted by shaka
    Flower does bat higher up in the order than Gilchrist and therefore Flower has no base in which to approach his innings. Gilchrist on the other hand comes in at 7 with the score usually above the 250 mark at least.
    Another point with that is Flower would often have to rescue his team from very precarious positions - even if batting at 3 or 4 or 5, he'd come in with very few runs on the board and take the team to a competitive total (at times).

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    Often I believe Gilchrist throws his wicket away simply cos Australia is in such an amazing position in most games that if he were to really knuckle down he could an increase his avg heaps more.
    Actually, many people have this sort of misconceptions....that apparently you can increase your production by simply 'knuckling down' and batting carefully.
    Trouble is, while many players can do this every now and then, nobody(who's style is fast paced) can do it consistently.
    Simply because, every batsman has a natural rythm and they do best when they are batting in that rythm.
    Dravid is great at knuckling down and scoring runs but he doesnt do too well when he tries to force the pace, simply because that isnt his natural style.
    Many times Lara has got out trying to curb his free-styler strokeplay and being more conservative and Sachin's performance has declined ever since he adopted this 'safe' approach.
    As such, i dont think Gilly's production would increase if he knuckled down and tried to bat like Dravid or Kallis.......infact, judging by precedence, it would lead to a detriment of his record.

    As per the rest of the argument, it is irrelevant really.
    For one, Flower faced better bowlers when he was around.
    For two, he couldnt afford to bat in the carefree manner that Gilly can- Gilly's got an awesome half-dozen ahead of him, Flower usually had the entire batting order(minus him) equalling or struggling to equal what just Steve Waugh could do.

    And dismissals/tests ? you mean catches and stumpings per test ?
    What kinda ridiculous barometer is that ????
    Yer rating wicketkeepers by catches/match ?
    That is absurd, i am sorry.
    For catches/match depends on 1. how good your bowling attack is and 2. how good a catcher you are.
    Now, Gilly is a superior glovesman to Flower in my opinion but you stick Gilly in a team that has Matambanabzo, Hondo, Streak, Strang etc. as bowlers and Gilly would struggle to average 2 dismissals/test as well- simply because he would have nothing to hold on to if the bowlers arnt creating chances!

  12. #12
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Batsman - Flower
    Keeper - Gilchrist

    Keeper/Batsman - Gilchrist
    Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since Dec '09
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    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS
    Batsman - Flower
    Keeper - Gilchrist

    Keeper/Batsman - Gilchrist

    That sums it up for me

  14. #14
    State Captain Chubb's Avatar
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    It is a hell of a lot easier to score hundreds at 300-5 than it is at 10-1 following on 300 behind, knowing it's highly unlikely anyone will be able to stick around with you for long. If he played for Australia he would have an average as good as Gilchrist. It's all the more remarkable that he acheived a 50+ average it that side. no one else it that team averaged above 30 with the bat (Grant Flower was declining at the height of Andy's powers)

  15. #15
    International Regular King_Ponting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS
    Batsman - Flower
    Keeper - Gilchrist

    Keeper/Batsman - Gilchrist
    Right on the money..

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