Who is better- Lara or Tendulkar?

[C_C]

Lara has been less consistent vs Aus, but has played at least 4 of the greatest innings ever against the same opponent. On that fact alone, he cannot come out behind Tendy in this scenario.

Sorry mate, i would count at most 3 innings ( 275, 153* and 200+ in Sabina park)...rest are good but not 'alltime great' category.


And yes, Tendy has benifitted from alsoran bowling- every batsman has. But the point is, he has benifitted a lot less than lara or most others and succeeded more than them in most situations.

[C_C]

ok if you take out that 400 he does average only 38.90, but i'll put up the argumet that if you take out Tendulkars 241 not out, 194 not out & 248 not out on maybe not on pitches that were has flat has Antigua put were flat his average rockets down to even low of 18.62 .Sooooo those big NOT OUT scores that Tendulkar had a more significant effect on his average than Lara's 400 had on his.

No wonder...you are taking out 3 scores for Tendy and 1 for Lara.


But yes, lara was more successful in 2004 and also in 2003 and 2002 and 2 other years in the 90s i think but 5 years doesnt cut the mustard, mate.Especially when we are talking about 15 year careers.

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by aussie

Tendulkars overall average & average in AUS would have been helped by the fact that in 2003/04 he caught a out of sorts aussie attack. Lara on the other hand in 2000 even though it was his 2nd series after the preceeding tour here were he went through a very difficult phase in his career still wasn't the Lara of old.

Really, let's see in 2000-01 sereis Lara didn't get to face Warnie at all and still failed (except for one inning of 182). He even struggled against spins of Miller and Macgill. In 2003-04, his biggest scores came when Warnie & Mcgrath were missing from the first 2 tests. Infact Lara didn't get to face Warnie in any of those two series.

Tendulaks average was helped by socres of 241 @ SCG, 194 & 240 odd vs BAN were followed by only 2 other 50s, while his other scores were failures.

So was Lara's Avg because of high scores like 400* vs. Eng, 202, 196, 176 Vs. SA and 191 vs. Zim.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Sanz

2nd team inning - Lara 36.36, Sachin 41.42

all this 2nd innings shows that Tendulkar has been a tad more consistent than Lara in second innings since 2000.But a major factor this lies in the strenght of IND & WI bowling respectively. A good example is in WI recent home series againts SA when Lara made those 2 big centuries in WI 1st innings in Trinidad & Barbados respectively he batted for a long time, then when it was SA's turn to bat he feilded for an even longer time..., now that would have surely had an effect on Lara physically and mentally which would have disabled him from scoring that heavily in WI second innings.

Tendulkar also averages higher than Lara in team 2nd innings throughout their careers but Lara has been faced with the stress even in the latter stages of Amborse & Walshes careers of ``Making big runs in the first innings then having to feel for long periods``. Sachin would have had to face that, but no way near has much as Lara

[social]

Originally Posted by C_C

Sorry mate, i would count at most 3 innings ( 275, 153* and 200+ in Sabina park)...rest are good but not 'alltime great' category.


And yes, Tendy has benifitted from alsoran bowling- every batsman has. But the point is, he has benifitted a lot less than lara or most others and succeeded more than them in most situations.

Add in the 100 off 84 balls (out of 117 whilst at wicket) at Antigua.

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by aussie

Tendulkar also averages higher than Lara in team 2nd innings throughout their careers but Lara has been faced with the stress even in the latter stages of Amborse & Walshes careers of ``Making big runs in the first innings then having to feel for long periods``. Sachin would have had to face that, but no way near has much as Lara

* Apart from Batting Tendulkar also bowls for his team which Lara never does
*Tendulkar never had the support of bowlers like Ambrose/Walsh
* Tendulkar has more 1st inning centuries than Lara
* Tendulkar has more 2nd inning centuries than Lara.

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by social

Add in the 100 off 84 balls (out of 117 whilst at wicket) at Antigua.

I dont think that was a great inning, it was made against an attack of Mcgrath, Dale, Miller, Macgill. Not to forget that Miller dropped a sitter when Lara was @ 15.

[Dasa]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

My take; they're both genius'. Tendulkar is a genius because of his perfection, Lara due to his imperfections. Performances and stats be damned, I love watching them both bat.

Well said, mate. I agree completely, although a little nationalistic bias makes me prefer Tendulkar - that and I enjoy watching right-handers more.

How about this, Tendulkar best right-handed batsman of our times, Lara the best leftie? I don't think anyone can argue with that (unless Richard brings up Graeme Smith).

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Sanz

Really, let's see in 2000-01 sereis Lara didn't get to face Warnie at all and still failed (except for one inning of 182). He even struggled against spins of Miller and Macgill. In 2003-04, his biggest scores came when Warnie & Mcgrath were missing from the first 2 tests. Infact Lara didn't get to face Warnie in any of those two series.



So was Lara's Avg because of high scores like 400* vs. Eng, 202, 196, 176 Vs. SA and 191 vs. Zim.

Thast my point in 2000/01 Lara was no where near his best, his struggles againts the likes of MaCGill & Miller proves that (since Lara without doubt is the best player of spin today). While even though Lara didn't face Warne in 2003 nor Pigeon for 2 test even though Tendulkar faced the same bowlers in (Dizzy, Lee, MaCgill, Bichel) plus Bracken & Williams, if you remember Dizzy & Lee were injured plagued throughout that series and were bowling no where has good as they bowled in the caribbean earlier than year againts Lara.

Secondly the difference between Lara scores their to Tendulkar scores where the fact that Lara was more consistent throughout 2004....

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Sanz

* Apart from Batting Tendulkar also bowls for his team which Lara never does
*Tendulkar never had the support of bowlers like Ambrose/Walsh
* Tendulkar has more 1st inning centuries than Lara
* Tendulkar has more 2nd inning centuries than Lara.

1. What does that have do with this argument

2. Thats true but after WI lost to AUS in 95, even though WI still had Ambrose/Walsh they still conceded big totals to the opposition, so if Lara was to make a big score in the 1st Innnings then fail in the 2nd that was due to fact that he was in the field for LONG periods which would affect him when he goes to bat a second time around...

3. What does this also havr to do with this argument

4. Yes and i have explained above the main reason why this is so....

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Sanz

Tendulkar played against Warne in 1991-92, 97-98, 99-00, 00-01, 04-05. I am sure Warnie was not at peak in any of those series. His peak must have lasted an awefully short period.

In 91/92 Warne was in his first series and wasn't proven has a good enough test match bowler, in 97/98 ihe came off a serious shoulder injury & in 2001 it was his first test series after an injury. In 2004 was was at his best while Sachin wasn't.

The only time that Tendulkar & Warne faced-off when both were at the peakof their abilities was in 99/2000 & Tendulkar had the better of Warne in that series....

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by aussie

1. What does that have do with this argument

Do you remember making a ridiculous statement like this "..Lara has been faced with the stress even in the latter stages of Amborse & Walshes careers of ``Making big runs in the first innings then having to feel for long periods``

2. so if Lara was to make a big score in the 1st Innnings then fail in the 2nd that was due to fact that he was in the field for LONG periods which would affect him when he goes to bat a second time around...

wtf ?? What is this nonsense man ? I have not heard anything more weird than that.So when Lara fails in the second innings because he has been in the field for longer and if Sachin fails in the second innings because he is a choker, isn't it ? That is despite the fact that Sachin also bowls for his team, has played almost 100 ODIs more than Lara during the same period. Not to forget that Sachin for the most part of his career played with only one world Class bowler Kumble (that too only at home) whereas Lara had the support of Bowlers like Ambrose/Walsh for the majority of his career.

PS :- I can assure you that Lara has spent much less time than Sachin in the field, be it batting, fielding or bowling. Dont believe me, go and check the stats.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Sanz

Do you remember making a ridiculous statement like this "..Lara has been faced with the stress even in the latter stages of Amborse & Walshes careers of ``Making big runs in the first innings then having to feel for long periods``



wtf ?? What is this nonsense man ? I have not heard anything more weird than that.So when Lara fails in the second innings because he has been in the field for longer and if Sachin fails in the second innings because he is a choker, isn't it ? That is despite the fact that Sachin also bowls for his team, has played almost 100 ODIs more than Lara during the same period. Not to forget that Sachin for the most part of his career played with only one world Class bowler Kumble (that too only at home) whereas Lara had the support of Bowlers like Ambrose/Walsh for the majority of his career.

PS :- I can assure you that Lara has spent much less time than Sachin in the field, be it batting, fielding or bowling. Dont believe me, go and check the stats.

1. That is a fact i illustrated the example of what happened in the recent home series againts SA where Lara made big hundreds in the 1st Innings of the Trinidad & Bridgetown test he was in the field for even longer periods so that would affect him physically & mentally which disbaled him form scoring that many runs in the 2nd innings. This is a fact that became very obvious even in the latter stages of Ambrose/Walshes careers, u think u understand now????

2. Secondly bringing in ODI facts to this is irrelevant because we are talking about test cricket mate . I'm not saying Tendulkar wouldn't have gone through that same scenario but clearly not has much has Lara because has i said before EVEN though Ambrose & Walsh were present in the latter stages of their careers WI still conceeded big totals.You want to research it check all the series WI played form the home series againts AUS in 95 to the UK tour in 2000 & check for Tendulkar during the same period....

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by aussie

In 91/92 Warne was in his first series and wasn't proven has a good enough test match bowler,

In 1991/92 Sachin was 18 years old and playing only in his 5th series. Warne was good enough bowler to get into an Aussie Side.

in 97/98 ihe came off a serious shoulder injury

Really, I thought he had come off a pretty good series against SA.Infact Warnie did pretty well against other Indian batsmen, it was only Sidhu and Sachin he could't handle.

in 2001 it was his first test series after an injury.

On the contarary, Adam Gilchrist the Vice Captain during 2001 series had following to say about Warnie' (before the series) :-

Q: How effective will Shane Warne be on this tour? After all, he had a bad tour in 1998?

". I think he is fresh now, he had a very good season back in Australia and the world will get to see what the real Warne is like on this tour."

In 2004 was was at his best while Sachin wasn't.

Not Really, a 30+ avg when most indian batsmen were out of form cant be Warnie's best.


The only time that Tendulkar & Warne faced-off when both were at the peakof their abilities was in 99/2000 & Tendulkar had the better of Warne in that series....[/QUOTE]

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by aussie

1. That is a fact i illustrated the example of what happened in the recent home series againts SA where Lara made big hundreds in the 1st Innings of the Trinidad & Bridgetown test he was in the field for even longer periods so that would affect him physically & mentally which disbaled him form scoring that many runs in the 2nd innings. This is a fact that became very obvious even in the latter stages of Ambrose/Walshes careers, u think u understand now????

Dude, what are you on about, quit making excuses ?? If Lara isn't physically strong enough to play for 5 days of test match, he should retire. As for being in the middle, During his 241 against Australia, Tendulkar was in the middle for 613 minutes, he then came back to field and fielded for another 500 minutes, then came back to bat for 108 minutes, and finally came back to field again for 383 mins. And Sachin has done it throughout his career, half of it in the scorching heat and humidity of India.

2. Secondly bringing in ODI facts to this is irrelevant because we are talking about test cricket mate .

I brought of ODI stats not to boost Sachin's batting credentials but to say that Sachin has had much less rest compared to Lara during his career due to so many ODIs he has played during that time.