India vs India

[Scallywag]

AD Gaekwad, NS Sidhu, DB Vengsarkar, SM Gavaskar, AO Malhotra, NS Yadav, RJ Shastri, RMH Binny, N Kapil Dev, SMH Kirmani, Maninder Singh.

This is the 83 Indian team, same again how do posters think the current Indian team would go against them.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

India were pretty weak then really. Aside from Kapil and Gavaskar, there's not much to write home about in that team. Obviously with players like Vengsarkar as well the batting is pretty good, but I'd take Kumble and Harbhajan over that spin attack any day, and Tendulkar, Dravid and Sehwag make up for the test. Easily stronger today.

Are you trying to prove some sort of point with these posts btw? If you post West Indies, Pakistan or New Zealand teams you'll get the opposite response.

 

[Scallywag]

Are you trying to prove some sort of point with these posts btw? If you post West Indies, Pakistan or New Zealand teams you'll get the opposite response.

Would you be so quick with Pakistan knowing these are the teams.

Shafiq Ahmed, Sadiq Mohammad, Majid Khan, Javed Miandad, Wasim Bari, Zaheer Abbas, Wasim Raja, Imran Khan, Sarfraz Nawaz, Iqbal Qasim, Mohammad Nazir.

Vs

Taufeeq Umar, Naved Latif, Younis Khan, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Yousuf Youhana, Abdul Razzaq, Rashid Latif, Saqlain Mushtaq, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar, Danish Kaneria.

 

[Scallywag]

This is NZs two teams.

MH Richardson, L Vincent, SP Fleming, CD McMillan, NJ Astle, SB Styris, JDP Oram, RG Hart, DL Vettori, DR Tuffey, SE Bond.

Vs

JG Wright, PA Horne, JJ Crowe, MD Crowe, DN Patel, JV Coney, JG Bracewell, RJ Hadlee, IDS Smith, MC Snedden, EJ Chatfield.

How do the NZers posters think these two teams would go.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Would you be so quick with Pakistan knowing these are the teams.

Shafiq Ahmed, Sadiq Mohammad, Majid Khan, Javed Miandad, Wasim Bari, Zaheer Abbas, Wasim Raja, Imran Khan, Sarfraz Nawaz, Iqbal Qasim, Mohammad Nazir.

Vs

Taufeeq Umar, Naved Latif, Younis Khan, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Yousuf Youhana, Abdul Razzaq, Rashid Latif, Saqlain Mushtaq, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar, Danish Kaneria.

Why are you choosing those teams, though? Waqar Younis and Rashid Latif don't even play any more. And there are better Pakistani teams than that in the 80s, it really depends what period you are going for.

I'd still go for the 80s one anyway, because it looks like that's an early 80s team, and Imran Khan was an awesome force with the ball and Sarfraz and Qasim isn't bad support at all. Then you've got two great batsmen in Javed Miandad and Zaheer Abbas. In the later team, Waqar Younis would obviously be old and well past his best, and while the test of the bowling is good isn't certainly not significantly better than what was available in the former team.

 

[C_C]

You know whats strange ?
How almost everybody acknowledges Vengsarkar as a 'good' batsman while ignoring Jimmy Amarnath.....whereas most knowledgable indian fans rate Jimmy as considerably better....Jimmy totally lost form near the end of his career ( had a run of single digit scores) but for most of his career, he was an assured player of spin and one of the best player of fast bowling.

And yes, India back then would get trounced by India currently.

As per Scallywag's idiotic post about Pakistan, i have to laugh really.

For one, he does an excellent job of picking a weak, if not the weakest Pakistani team of the late 70s/80s to try and make his point.

Apparently Shafiq Ahmed, who played a 'massive' six matches averaging 11 gets mentioned but Shoaib Mohammed with 45 matches and 45-ish average is not worth mention.

Majid Khan, who made his bread and butter as an opener, gets relegated to # 3 in favour of Sadiq Mohammed..

Apparently Wasim Raja deserves mention but Saleem Malik ( who played more matches in the 80s than 90s btw) is ignored.

Apparently Mohammed Nazir playing all of 14 tests and averaging 30+ with the ball deserves to be mentioned from the '70s/80s team' over Akram.

Strangely, no Abdul Qadir.......

I suppose with dishonesty and distortions like these, debating is useless.

I think THIS team would be a bit better representation of PAK through the late 70s and 80s:


Majid Khan
Shoaib Mohammed
Mudasser Nazar
Zaheer Abbass
Javed Miandad
Saleem Malik
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari
Abdul Qadir
Iqbal Qasim/Sarfaraz Nawaz( depending on pitch).

 

[Scallywag]

Why are you choosing those teams, though? Waqar Younis and Rashid Latif don't even play any more. And there are better Pakistani teams than that in the 80s, it really depends what period you are going for.

I'd still go for the 80s one anyway, because it looks like that's an early 80s team, and Imran Khan was an awesome force with the ball and Sarfraz and Qasim isn't bad support at all. Then you've got two great batsmen in Javed Miandad and Zaheer Abbas. In the later team, Waqar Younis would obviously be old and well past his best, and while the test of the bowling is good isn't certainly not significantly better than what was available in the former team.

Because I think that the WI v Aus has been done to death and there are other teams and players that play cricket.

I'm not going for any period in particular but comparing randomly picked teams and looking for opinions on how they would go.

 

[Scallywag]

I suppose with dishonesty and distortions like these, debating is useless.

Care to explain what is dishonset and distorted C_C.

 

[C_C]

Care to explain what is dishonset and distorted C_C.

You trying to compare a PAK team with bulk of the members who have hardly played test cricket or arnt the best of the lot with an almost full-strength PAK team over the last 4-5 years.
A better comparison would be the PAK team that faced AUS in sharjah with yer 80s lineup.

 

[Scallywag]

You trying to compare a PAK team with bulk of the members who have hardly played test cricket or arnt the best of the lot with an almost full-strength PAK team over the last 4-5 years.
A better comparison would be the PAK team that faced AUS in sharjah with yer 80s lineup.

No C_C I compared the Pakistan team that played WI in 1981 and lost 0-1 in a four test series.

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1980S/1980-81/WI_IN_PAK/WI_PAK_T4_30DEC1980-04JAN1981.html

Test # 892 (889/19)
Pakistan v West Indies, 1980/81, 4th Test
Ibn-e-Qasim Bagh Stadium, Multan
30,31 December 1980, 2,3,4 January 1981 (5-day match)

Result: Match drawn
West Indies wins the 4-Test series 1-0



So what you are saying is the WI team comprising of DL Haynes, SFAF Bacchus, IVA Richards, AI Kallicharran, HA Gomes, CH Lloyd, DA Murray, ST Clarke, MD Marshall, J Garner, CEH Croft. played and I'll use your own words "weakest Pakistani team of the late 70s/80s" and only managed to beat them 1-0.

You still havent pointed out where I was dishonest and distorted things.

 

[C_C]

So what you are saying is the WI team comprising of DL Haynes, SFAF Bacchus, IVA Richards, AI Kallicharran, HA Gomes, CH Lloyd, DA Murray, ST Clarke, MD Marshall, J Garner, CEH Croft. played and I'll use your own words "weakest Pakistani team of the late 70s/80s" and only managed to beat them 1-0.

Yup.
but then again, i will rely on you to distort the stats to suit yer pro-aussie perspective.
You'd do well to realise that the series was adversely affected by rain.
1st test had 2 days wiped out, third test lost two evening sessions(which PAK managed to draw by the skin of their teeth) and the 4th test had the entire last day plus 2 sessions of day4 wiped out by rain.

Good going with the facts-distortions and dishonesty, mate.

You still havent pointed out where I was dishonest and distorted things.

I already have but you chose to ignore it.
Your comparisons are highly skewed, since you are comparing really weak teams from the 80s that played the odd games or a series with full strength or near-full strength teams playing currently.
Its would be like saying an Indian team minus 5 regulars beat a full strength OZ team minus Warne by 7 wickts in 96 is proof enough of aussie ineptitude.


PS: aussie aussie aussie. oi oi oi !

 

[Scallywag]

Good going with the facts-distortions and dishonesty, mate.

So exactaly what fact has been distorted C_C.

I have given you the link to the game so if you really are a man show me what has been distorted and dishonest.

 

[Scallywag]

and here is the Pakistan team from 03 v SA

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2003-04/RSA_IN_PAK/SCORECARDS/RSA_PAK_T1_17-21OCT2003.html


Looks like you tried to distort thing through dishonesty C_C.

 

[Scallywag]

I think THIS team would be a bit better representation of PAK through the late 70s and 80s:


Majid Khan
Shoaib Mohammed
Mudasser Nazar
Zaheer Abbass
Javed Miandad
Saleem Malik
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari
Abdul Qadir
Iqbal Qasim/Sarfaraz Nawaz( depending on pitch).

Can you provide a link to the series that this team played.

 

[C_C]

So exactaly what fact has been distorted C_C.

I have given you the link to the game so if you really are a man show me what has been distorted and dishonest.

I already have told you what you've distorted and where you are being dishonest.
Incase yer English is rusty, i would like to remind you that 'dishonest' is synonymous with 'misleading' and you are being misleading here to attempt discrediting the WI of the late 70s/80s by trying to say that they couldnt even beat a weak Pakistani team convincingly...without taking into consideration the circumstances such as weather.
Or by trying to throw up weak teams that played maybe a match or two together as an example of 'the kind of teams WI beat'.
I suppose if OZ plays a FC series against Mongolia and all but 2 sessions per match is rained out, it would be very apt to say " the AUS team comprising of M Hayden, J Langer, R.Ponting, D.Martyn,M.Clarke,A.Gillchrist,S.Warne.G.McGrath.B.Lee,J.Gillespie and S.Katich played the weakest team on the planet and only managed to draw the series"

You are being dishonest by making an inappropriate comparison - between regular full strength or near-full strength teams of the present with the odd-ball team that played a few matches.
Thats like trying to compare this current WI team's performance and strength as a barometer with the WI team of the mid 90s.

 

[Scallywag]

I already have told you what you've distorted and where you are being dishonest.
Incase yer English is rusty, i would like to remind you that 'dishonest' is synonymous with 'misleading' and you are being misleading here to attempt discrediting the WI of the late 70s/80s by trying to say that they couldnt even beat a weak Pakistani team convincingly...without taking into consideration the circumstances such as weather.
Or by trying to throw up weak teams that played maybe a match or two together as an example of 'the kind of teams WI beat'.
I suppose if OZ plays a FC series against Mongolia and all but 2 sessions per match is rained out, it would be very apt to say " the AUS team comprising of M Hayden, J Langer, R.Ponting, D.Martyn,M.Clarke,A.Gillchrist,S.Warne.G.McGrath.B.Lee,J.Gillespie and S.Katich played the weakest team on the planet and only managed to draw the series"

You are being dishonest by making an inappropriate comparison - between regular full strength or near-full strength teams of the present with the odd-ball team that played a few matches.
Thats like trying to compare this current WI team's performance and strength as a barometer with the WI team of the mid 90s.

Maybe you need to learn english C_C, I posted two teams selected from series where Pakistan played well. 1980 when they lost 0-1 to WI because at the time Pak did not win many games. And I picked the Pak v SA of 03 where Pak played well.

I could have included Sehwag but I just stuck to the two teams that played. The only distortion is in your head. And this is not about the WI its about Pakistan so the only misleading being done here is by you and your inability to read what a post is about.

 

[C_C]

I posted two teams selected from series where Pakistan played well. 1980 when they lost 0-1 to WI because at the time Pak did not win many games. And I picked the Pak v SA of 03 where Pak played well.

It is distorting the reality and being patently dishonest by claiming 'the great WI team couldnt beat one of the weakest PAK team in the last 30 years' without factoring in the weather- which can wash out entire matches irrespective of who is facing whom.

Your comparisons are patently bogus and irrelevant,since you are using a rare case scenario as a direct comparison with the 'normal case/near normal case' scenario.
As such, your comparison has no basis and the conclusions formed are utterly irrelevant.
You have no clue about comparisons and analysis.

-Signed,
CC,
Electronics Engineer , analysis and research speciality.

 

[Scallywag]

It is distorting the reality and being patently dishonest by claiming 'the great WI team couldnt beat one of the weakest PAK team in the last 30 years' without factoring in the weather- which can wash out entire matches irrespective of who is facing whom..

You stupid idiot
West Indies won the series. Besides its about Pakistan playing Pakistan.

Your comparisons are patently bogus and irrelevant,since you are using a rare case scenario as a direct comparison with the 'normal case/near normal case' scenario.
As such, your comparison has no basis and the conclusions formed are utterly irrelevant.
You have no clue about comparisons and analysis..

Again you stupid idiot.
The comparisons are two teams that actually played refer to links to see I have used actual teams that played.

-Signed,
CC,
Electronics Engineer , analysis and research speciality.

Unemployed I bet.


Didnt think you had the mental capacity to compare two teams.

I bet you cant resist the bait.

 

[C_C]

You stupid idiot
West Indies won the series. Besides its about Pakistan playing Pakistan.

Again you stupid idiot.
The comparisons are two teams that actually played refer to links to see I have used actual teams that played.

You are too obvious and as easy to read as Mark waugh's dibbly dobblies.

You mentioned on your out of your own volition that AUS vs WI has been debated to death and then you embarked on comparing teams of past and present for the same nations.
What might the objective be, one might ask ?
Given that you are a proven racist and aussie-superiorist, motive is fairly easy to determine.
What is the point of comparing teams of a particular nation from the past and present ?
Why were the timelines selected ( 80s vs current) ? Why not the 50s or 60s or the early 70s ?
The Freudian slip came from your acknowledgement that 'OZ and WI have been debated no end', indicating that THIS issue is your prime target and you are trying to approach it obliquely.

it is obvious that it needles you no end that critically acclaimed and commonly acknowledged status of the 'best team ever' goes to the WI of the mid 70s through early 90s.
You desperately try to prove otherwise, only to fall flat on yer face.
A cursory objective analysis reveals that the general PAK, NZ and WI teams from the 80s were superior with England a very debatable issue ( arguably superior till mid 80s and then inferior) with India not too far behind. That is, the most common team fielded during that timespan.
Therefore, you deliberately and dishonestly pick particular oddball combos- in the odd instances when a team was particularly weak to try and shore up yer aussie-superiorist ego and make a point that the teams WI beat during their dominant period were inferior to the current teams.

Its rather simple really.

Your psychological bend and profile is as predictable as an arithmetic progression.

Unemployed I bet.

Then you would be betting wrong.

I bet you cant resist the bait.

Atleast, in your stupidity and narrowmindedness, you've made the Freudian slip that your entire purpose here is to bait instead of debate cricket from an objective perspective.

No wonder psychologists are filthy rich...maybe i should switch profession.... the world is full of yer ilk that makes the job as easy as counting numbers.

 

[Scallywag]

Given that you are a proven racist and aussie-superiorist

And you have shown your true colors.

You cant discuss cricket without bringing your phobia into it.

Still maybe your just uncomfortable with yourself.