Australian Cricket and All-Rounders

[social]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

The bowling and batting average of 40 was in reference to Matthews, who you mentioned.

The thing was about SOD. My apologies for allowing the confusion.


Exactly, and especially at a young age. If your going to be playing a senior grade of cricket, you need to make sure that at least one of the aspects of your game is at a good enough level to get you a promotion to a higher side, therefore you often concentrate on that aspect.

In addition, if your a promising young batsman, and your a pretty good bowler for your own age level, but not very good at senior level, then chances are that the bowling side of your game will be neglected, even in the nets at training, and you don't get a chance to hone it. Then when your side is crying out for an all-rounder, you think "Well, I could have been one if you let me ".

I've seen it happen (I wish it was to me though, lol, it'd give me an excuse for my mediocrity )

Pretty good summary, Vic.

Another factor lies in the state of Australian pitches. To be consistently successful as a bowler in Aus at international level, you generally need to be quick or an exceptional spinner. Needless, to say, it is rare to find bowlers with these qualities let alone someone that is also an outstanding batsman (hence the excitement over the potential of Watson).

[greg]

In 1993 Mark Waugh opened the bowling in an Ashes match

I think that many all-rounders are 'discovered' by chance, because international teams are desperate for them to balance their sides. People thought to be no better than medium pacers are suddenly encouraged to run in a little harder and it's suddenly discovered that they have the potential to bowl at serious pace (Craig White and Flintoff are both examples of this). Or you have people like Jayasuriya who are promoted up the order in ODI games, and to everyone's surprise have the potential to become seriously good batsmen. Basically until people are given the responsibility of doing either discipline as something other than a part-timer they won't apply themselves properly to reach their full potential.

Aus strength in recent years has counted against them. They have just been too strong in both batting and bowling to ever need to experiment and discover people by accident.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

True. At various times you could count the Waugh's as all-rounders.

Steve maybe, but Mark, I wouldn't say so.

[luckyeddie]

Originally Posted by The Maestro

At various times I take 3 dumps a day



wish I always did

I had a kebab like that last night.

[Swervy]

What about the legend that is Shaun Graf?

[vic_orthdox]

Originally Posted by Swervy

What about the legend that is Shaun Graf?

Aah, "The Maestro" of Victorian cricket himself. Don't impress him, you may as well move states.

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

Aah, "The Maestro" of Victorian cricket himself. Don't impress him, you may as well move states.

what ..has he something to do with coaching at Victoria these days then

[vic_orthdox]

Originally Posted by Swervy

what ..has he something to do with coaching at Victoria these days then

Cricket Operations Manager, or something like that. Bowls off-spin for St. Kilda 2nd XI still (they're 1sts contain the likes of Graeme Rummans, Nick Jewell, Shaun Craig and Michael Klinger) and takes ridiculous numbers of wickets for ridiculously low number of runs.

As I indicated before, he's a real powerbroker in Victorian cricket. Don't know if he is still on the selection panel, but he once was, and uses his position as a player to keep on the lookout for talent.

[Neil Pickup]

Originally Posted by Sir Redman

I think this is leading to a whole heap of batsmen who can bowl a bit and bowlers who can bat a bit

Like the entire national side, then?

[James90]

I just don't think there's enough in it to be an allrounder because you see almost no-one in grassroots level who is good at both. I remember very early on I was pretty mediocre at but. When I failed with the bat I usually got a wicket or two and when I went wicketless I usually got some runs. I just worked on my game in general, my batting improved and my bowling didn't. Ever since I've always thought of myself as a batsman. I think people will always be better at one than the other and usually you see players trying to improve their better skill to meet the requirements of playing at their particular level. Should you remain a genuine allrounder there's always the idea that you'll be thought of as a bits and pieces player

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

Cricket Operations Manager, or something like that. Bowls off-spin for St. Kilda 2nd XI still (they're 1sts contain the likes of Graeme Rummans, Nick Jewell, Shaun Craig and Michael Klinger) and takes ridiculous numbers of wickets for ridiculously low number of runs.

As I indicated before, he's a real powerbroker in Victorian cricket. Don't know if he is still on the selection panel, but he once was, and uses his position as a player to keep on the lookout for talent.

still playing....wow!!!!

found these:
http://stkilda.cricketvictoria.com.a...f;site_id=1282

[Top_Cat]

Steve maybe, but Mark, I wouldn't say so.

Certainly early on Steve was definitely in the allround category but the only reason Mark would not have been considered as such was because his batting was so good. In reality, he was a good enough bowler to be an pace-bowling allrounder (he regularly bowled 130+km/h and swung the ball) but as his back troubles became worse, he reverted to off-spin and at that point, he most certainly became a batsman.

He never rated himself much as an off-spinner (thankfully) and figured every wicket was a bonus; I remember reading a book where Steve Waugh said he told Mark to warm up in a match and "Mark gave me the usual "You're kidding." look" but he took a few wickets that day!

[vic_orthdox]

IMO, from what I saw (admittedly didn't see Steve when he was an all-rounder) but from early 90s onwards, when they were both bowling pace Mark looked to me to be the tougher to handle customer, capable of pulling a jaffa out of nowhere.

To me, Mark certainly had the talent with ball in hand to be an all-rounder, and often had success in a five or six over spell when the opposition was getting a partnership together. Its just that he didn't bowl often enough to be classified as an all-rounder.

There were matches in the early 90s, I think, where Aus went in with two spinners and used a combination of the two Waugh brothers as a third pacer ('93 Ashes strikes a chord).

[aussie]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

There were matches in the early 90s, I think, where Aus went in with two spinners and used a combination of the two Waugh brothers as a third pacer ('93 Ashes strikes a chord).

a famous incident of that was in that famous 1 run win by the windies at adelaide in 92 when the combination was McDermott/Hughes/May/Warne/Waugh's.

[kendall]

It is strange that they havnt produced one for years but they seemed to have coped pretty well without one and i suppose gilchrist is an allrounder